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Old 09-15-2017, 07:18 PM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Push kick to yourself

Saw this in Avengers Grimm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4TbfsPkZaU

Guy is grappled from behind. Throne is bolted to floor. Pushes against it to launch self and attacker backward. Not sure how to explain this in GURPS terms. Love using your environment rules.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

Oddly enough, I think this is a Shove (B372). Being grappled prevents moving away from the person grabbing you, but not towards them.
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

So basically even if you cannot punch/shove your rear hex, you ought to be able to white with your body?
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

If you're grappled from behind, and perform a Push Kick against an immovable object, you should be able to move both yourself and your grappler. That sounds fair enough to me - a cool move actually.

So it's a Shove, where the knockback damage is compared to the sum of the opponents' ST-2.

But I think it should be easier than this, because if our opponent is holding you, you don't need the other leg to support you, nor use much concentration on keeping your balance.
Push Kick is a "one-legged manoeuvre", how much better is it using both legs? Legs are stronger than arms, so a two-handed push equals a one-legged - it seems.

Looking at 'the sound of one hand grappling' MA116 there is a drastic reduction in effective ST hen performing a two-handed action with only one. ST is halved! So should this kind of Push Kick calculate knockback damage on double ST?

An easier fix is to simply compare knockback damage to the opponent's ST-2.

However, I'm not sure Push Kick is even the right Technique to use. The action described is as much a wrasslin' move as it is a brawlin' move - not high-kicking martial arts.

I suggest calling it "Push Off", defaulting it to Sumo, Wrestling, Brawling and perhaps ST. I'm unsure as to modifiers.
If grappled from behind, you can use one or both legs to push off an immovable object (or at least something significantly heavier than the two of you), in order to move both of you one yard. It need not be a Technique, it could simply be a specific, special attack manoeuvre. It could be as simpel as a regular contest of ST, where the attacker rolls at (perhaps?) +5 if using both legs. The defender can opt to let to, rather than resist (akin to sprawling), so an attacker using both legs ends up prone, but free from the grapple.Maybe this avoids the St contest, but the defender must succeed in a DX roll to be fast enough?

That was a bit brute force, perhaps a Push off could also use more in the way of technique? If in Close Combat, but *not* involved in a grapple (either way) with the opponent you can perform a two-handed shove. Compare your knockback damage to the lowest ST-2 of either you or your opponenent, moving the smallest one of you out of close combat into an adjacent hex.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

We probably do need a ruling on how a two-legged push kick would work. Even outside of grappling if you were sitting in a chair or lying supine you could do it.

Maybe it would just use the combined effort rules from powers.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:50 AM   #6
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

It's a shove isn't it.

You might not be shoving directly at your target with your legs, but your shoving against a resistant surface with the resulting shoving motion working in the opposite direction and against the opponent.


If I was really going into it I'd allow a two legged shove to access the x1.2 ST bonus to two legged grapples.

It might not be a perfect match but close enough for me.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-21-2017 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

I know drop kick is designed with two legs so it might be possible to do a "drop push kick" but it is a type of Slam based on HP and yards moved so would not be as useful if stationary and trying to get someone away or to try and move yourself and a grappler.

I like the idea of double ST shove. Not that unbalancing considering the rare situations you could use it.
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
It's a shove isn't it.

You might not be shoving directly at your target with your legs, but your shoving against a resistant surface with the resulting shoving motion working in the opposite direction and against the opponent.


If I was really going into it I'd allow a two legged shove to access the x1.2 ST bonus to two legged grapples.

It might not be a perfect match but close enough for me.
It was the 1,2 factor I was looking for. That seems more reasonable than 2x.

If executed as a Push it'll use well known mechanics.
If grappled from behind, you can lift both legs up and push off a heavy or immobile object, moving both yourself and the person grappling. However is the grappler lets you go in time, you fall down. Or is he is not strong enough to carry you, you both fall.
Or, in normal non-grappling close combat, I'd considera Push with both hands to move either you or your opponent, depending on who has the lower ST.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

I'd think this is a shove at +2 ST for using your legs.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: Push kick to yourself

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraviolet View Post
It was the 1,2 factor I was looking for. That seems more reasonable than 2x.

If executed as a Push it'll use well known mechanics.
If grappled from behind, you can lift both legs up and push off a heavy or immobile object, moving both yourself and the person grappling. However is the grappler lets you go in time, you fall down. Or is he is not strong enough to carry you, you both fall.
Or, in normal non-grappling close combat, I'd considera Push with both hands to move either you or your opponent, depending on who has the lower ST.
Sounds good to me. You could possibly use some of the stability and weight rules from TG (if you use TG).
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