Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-20-2017, 07:07 PM   #1
onetrikpony
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Default 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

I'm not familiar with any of the older material and I'm wondering;

What are the major conflicts between the old books and 4th edition?

If I used the old Vehicles, Mecha or Robots books to build some gear would it be playable in 4th edition?

The only thing I can see via a quick browse is PD doesn't exist anymore and some of the weapon stats seem a little weird.

Cyberworld and Cthulhu Punk look cool too, are they usable?

I have a chance to swipe a bunch of old dead tree books for free but I don't want to take them if they're just going to waste time and shelf space.
onetrikpony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 07:15 PM   #2
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

You want GURPS Update, the free publication which addresses differences between 3rd edition and 4e. You've spotted one of the big ones (no PD in 4e), but there are a number of more or less subtle ones as well. If you can get a bunch of free 3rd edition books, do so. They tend to be useful to the extent that they're not rules-heavy, and a bunch of the really important books have 4e replacements where all the conversion and update work has been done for you (for example, Martial Arts and the entire -Tech series). However, there's a wealth of rules-light worldbooks and genre books which are 90%+ usable as-is, and the rules material is easily converted. And for books where there's no 4e equivalent, like Vehicles, the 3rd edition book is better than nothing and is likely to give results which will at least get you in the right ballpark.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 12:45 AM   #3
weby
 
weby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Re: 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

Some of them:
Hitpoints-very different for larger objects. (Both systems are basically broken for large objects but in opposite ways, in 3e big things are too hard to break, in 4e far too easy)
Many of the additional weapon stats(acc, ss and so on)
Explosive damage.
PD - as you noted.
Computer systems.
The whole Psionic system.
Most of the super powers
Tech levels.
Skill progression from points used.
Attribute progression from points used.
and many other things.

Overall the crunch books(ultra tech, low tech and so on) are not all that usable, but the wide background one are very usable.
__________________
--
weby's gaming stuff: http://weby.roto.nu
weby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #4
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
Some of them:
Hitpoints-very different for larger objects. (Both systems are basically broken for large objects but in opposite ways, in 3e big things are too hard to break, in 4e far too easy)
I've been using 2/3*square(cube root(weigh in lbs)) for some homebrew vehicles design based on 3e Vehicles, and it gives numbers that are in the right ballpark. A 2000 ton 74-gun ship of the line firing 33 gun broadsides (with about 6dx8 pi++ per gun for 24-32 lbers) and hitting with about 9 guns per salvo takes 18 salvos to ablate 11,400 HP with my system (versus 55 salvos to ablate 35,000 HP with 3e and 2 salvos to ablate 1086 HP with 4e). You could mess with the exact scaling factor but weight in lbs raised to 2/3 gives numbers in the right order of magnitude I think.
__________________
Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com
mlangsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 12:29 PM   #5
onetrikpony
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Default Re: 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

I kind of like the old build-it-yourself books. I'm not seeing any huge conflict in using the old Vehicles and Robot books to build gear for my game.

PB - looks like it can just be ignored.

HP - Based on surface area in Vehicles and Robots, which seems to make better sense for mechanical things than using HP = ST ~ Mass

Power Plants - Robots gives definitive Joules ratings for each E-Cell! This is exciting and handy unless it turns out to violate the precepts in 4th edition.
Ultratech is pretty vague on power production and storage so I can't see any conflict.

Weapon Stats - in the 3e books I think they can be largely ignored there are plenty of choices and examples in UT.

LARGE vehicles - I havn't really looked at this. But I can't imagine any utility in building something large than a Main Battle tank. the old system might break down for something like large submarines or areal craft. I'd probably just go to Space Ships for the build and Vehicles for the accessories.

I don't want to break the game. Are there any pitfalls I'm missing?

Thanks for the advice. :)
onetrikpony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 12:47 PM   #6
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony View Post
HP - Based on surface area in Vehicles and Robots, which seems to make better sense for mechanical things than using HP = ST ~ Mass)
In 4/e ST is not proportional to mass. It's proportional to the cube root of mass.]

It actually isn't a terrible choice in terms of scaling relationships. An animal's muscle mass and body weight are proportional to its volume, but its strength is proportional to the cross-sectional area of its limbs or trunk, which varies as the 2/3 power of volume (to a first approximation; big animals aren't built exactly like small ones). So having weight go as the cube of ST, and basic lift as the square, comes out in the right ballpark.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

A human being should know how to live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse. Specialization is for insects.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 02:58 PM   #7
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: 3e stat conflicts with 4e?

If you're going to use GURPS VEHICLES or GURPS ROBOTS, might I suggest using the comments I posted in THIS thread? It uses the newer Complexity ratings for computers in GURPS 4e, but adapts it for use with the GURPS ROBOTS design rules (and consequently, can help for using GURPS VEHICLES designs for robots etc.

Also, given the choice between running a combat between ships of the line in GURPS 4e rules and in GURPS 3e rules, the battles will take longer in 3e than in 4e. Truth be told? That is how it should be. My thoughts on the 4e rules for Age of Sail ships and the damages dealt out by cannons in GURPS 4e, make it impossible for a Ship of the Line to withstand hours of battle as they did in real life.

Playability versus realism. It has been pointed out that a squad of musketeers firing muskets, can sink the HMS VICTORY in a relatively short period of time per the GURPS rules as written.

If you can get your hands on HEART OF OAK miniatures rules in the form of PRIVATEERS AND GENTLEMEN, (which can be had either as a PDF or as a newly reprinted Book from Fantasy Games Unlimited - or keep your eyes open for BEAT TO QUARTERS by Command Perspective on ebay (out of print since the 1980's) - you may be better using the miniature rules than the GURPS rules, and using the GURPS rules for character interactions.

That's just me however... ;)
hal is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cthulhupunk, cyberworld, mecha, robots

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.