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Old 09-14-2017, 12:10 AM   #1
Hellboy
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Default Mechanical differences between "Open Wound" and Mucous Membranes?

B110 "Blood Agent" for example mentions "Your attack must reach a mucous
membrane (eyes, open mouth, nose, etc.) or an open wound to have any
effect.

B162's "wounded" gives you an open wound. Not sure if there's any limit on how many times you can take that... 2 open wounds is worse IRL but having 2 locations you can target at -7 isn't that much worse than having 1. Except maybe that you would require more armor to protect them. The more obvious downside is now you have to spend double the time dressing 2 wounds to avoid the -3 to HT, which I assume is cumulative if you do not dress either of them

The key difference I think is that mucous membranes don't require wound-dressing. The -7 to target is equal to the nose, but not the the eyes (-9) and I'm not really sure what the penalty is to hit an open mouth (jaw is -6).

I imagine getting stabbed in an open mouth is worse than getting stabbed in a closed mouth... maybe that 1.5x multiplier should apply (treating the mouth as a wound that doesn't require dressing) when the mouth is open?

Fighting with your mouth constantly closed might impede breathing, so there could be penalties designed around someone who does this to avoid someone squirting some kinda toxin into their mouths.

I figure that nose-based Blood Agents only apply to breath-based attacks not liquid ones, unless of course it is enough to submerge you and you begin to drown and are forced to breath in the liquid you are in.

I guess in theory you could squirt something up a nostril but... that would be REALLY hard. If eyes are -9 then nostrils should be at least -10. Ear canals probably same. Maybe another -2 since you basically have to do a reach-around attack to hit the side of the head, while someone trying to target eyes from a side hex would probably be -2 as well.

What I got thinking about was Eugene from the Preacher comic/show. He just doesn't look like he is able to fully close his mouth. So in a way, his mouth probably always qualifies as open, which would make it very similar to "Wounded" except that I don't think he has to roll First Aid to dress his mouth (though I could be wrong, maybe he needs to swish salt water which is similar even if it doesn't require bandaging?)
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mechanical differences between "Open Wound" and Mucous Membranes?

I dont really see or understand what your question is here.
A mucous membrane has less protection against things so more would be a disadvantage.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mechanical differences between "Open Wound" and Mucous Membranes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
B110 "Blood Agent" for example mentions "Your attack must reach a mucous
membrane (eyes, open mouth, nose, etc.) or an open wound to have any
effect.

B162's "wounded" gives you an open wound. Not sure if there's any limit on how many times you can take that... 2 open wounds is worse IRL but having 2 locations you can target at -7 isn't that much worse than having 1. Except maybe that you would require more armor to protect them. The more obvious downside is now you have to spend double the time dressing 2 wounds to avoid the -3 to HT, which I assume is cumulative if you do not dress either of them

The key difference I think is that mucous membranes don't require wound-dressing. The -7 to target is equal to the nose, but not the the eyes (-9) and I'm not really sure what the penalty is to hit an open mouth (jaw is -6).

I imagine getting stabbed in an open mouth is worse than getting stabbed in a closed mouth... maybe that 1.5x multiplier should apply (treating the mouth as a wound that doesn't require dressing) when the mouth is open?

Fighting with your mouth constantly closed might impede breathing, so there could be penalties designed around someone who does this to avoid someone squirting some kinda toxin into their mouths.

I figure that nose-based Blood Agents only apply to breath-based attacks not liquid ones, unless of course it is enough to submerge you and you begin to drown and are forced to breath in the liquid you are in.

I guess in theory you could squirt something up a nostril but... that would be REALLY hard. If eyes are -9 then nostrils should be at least -10. Ear canals probably same. Maybe another -2 since you basically have to do a reach-around attack to hit the side of the head, while someone trying to target eyes from a side hex would probably be -2 as well.

What I got thinking about was Eugene from the Preacher comic/show. He just doesn't look like he is able to fully close his mouth. So in a way, his mouth probably always qualifies as open, which would make it very similar to "Wounded" except that I don't think he has to roll First Aid to dress his mouth (though I could be wrong, maybe he needs to swish salt water which is similar even if it doesn't require bandaging?)
You shouldn't read too much into the disadvantage Wounded (p. B162) insofar as Blood Agent (p. 110) is concerned. Wounded is a special case of open wound, specifically, "an open wound that will not completely heal" [emphasis mine]. Most open wounds will heal completely. Wound dressing won't help an open wound against a Blood Agent unless the bandage is somehow armoured (min DR 1) or Sealed. In neither case will a wound dressing help against a Blood Agent after the fact. Slapping a dressing on an open wound after the Blood Agent has penetrated may restore hit points the Blood Agent destroyed but it wouldn't stop further damage.

Open wounds are any wound where the skin is broken. If you take at least 1 point of cutting or impaling damage, you have an open wound. Crushing damage may or may not break the skin, though it seems more likely with increasing damage, i.e. a 7 point wound from a mace sounds like it's more likely to have resulted in a minor scratch as part of the damage somewhere that a 1 point wound from the same mace. Bullets with their pi modifiers are crushing damage that will result in an open wound if at least one point of damage gets through to the target.

The mucous membranes are what Blood Agents are actually made to target IRL. You don't have to wound/stab them in order for the Blood Agent to work, simple contact with the surface is all it takes. That they can also affect open wounds is an added bonus but not something that was counted on.

As such, the only viable protection from a Blood Agent is wearing armour (having DR). Alternatively, having equipment that grants the Sealed advantage ought to help for some cases, e.g., wearing a gas mask/NBCW respirator. Other equipment for equivalent advantages might include a diver's mask for Nictating Membrane or an air tank/respirator for Filter Lungs while its contents hold out.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mechanical differences between "Open Wound" and Mucous Membranes?

In general, NBC gear will protect against Blood Agents, regardless of targeting mucous membranes or open wounds - as will any equipment that protects from contact agents (including space suits etc.)

Bacteria and parasites that specifically like to colonize open wounds and to hell with whatever's attached to it may be repulsed by mucous membranes. I definitely wouldn't count on it - if nothing else mucous membranes are so delicate that we tend to do micro-damage them on a regular basis (particularly the mouth, because of course we keep teeth in our mouths and teeth are hard). Otherwise, e.g. spitting cobra venom is aimed at the slightly-more-robust mucous membranes, because you can be sure the animals they're spitting at have those, where they may not have open wounds.

Remember that "up the nose" is also a mucous membrane, and on many animals is easier to target from the front than on a human. It's also more reliably exposed and for most land animals much harder to close than eyes or mouth. And if you miss, you might hit the mouth or eyes anyways so that's handy.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mechanical differences between "Open Wound" and Mucous Membranes?

I just figure the penalty to hit nose assumes on top of it, not a nostril. Although wider stores would not require as much accuracy
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