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Old 09-15-2017, 02:15 AM   #1
Set
 
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Default The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Coming soon: how to sneak on people.

My greetings to the forums (skip if you don't care about me :( ) and the context

Wassup, everyone.

I'm completely new to the forums, but I've been lurking around unseen for quite some time. Fnord.

I like long walks on the beach, (though I live around 1000km from any ocean), dogs and cats, but mostly dogs, music (even though I suck at all attempts to produce them, I keep trying), and barbecue.

I've never really played a GURPS game due to the lack of either players or GMs willing to tackle the sheer amount of rules that are presented. Oh, well.

Currently, I'm trying to put together rules and stuff to GM a Dungeon Fantasy adventure. Because the only thing that is better than a sword, is a glowing sword.

The combination below is the product of the last few hours scrapping my head, bashing it against the wall and crying, during which I've read books and this thread (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=81339).

Anyways, onwards to the glorious world of slit throats and guggling guards...


THE SHORT VERSION

What are you doing?
Slitting a throat.
First, you need to be behind your target, at a distance of no more than half your move, before closing in for the kill.
Then, you start your turn using an All-Out Attack doing the following:

You choke the victim to silence him with a +3 to hit, based on your grappling skill.
You stab him in the neck with a knife. +3 hit. This does a damage of (thrust dmg of weapon)+5 impaling. Injury is x2.
Then you drag your knife across his neck. +3 hit. Dmg: (thrust dmg of weapon)+3 cutting. Injury is x2.5
You end your turn with the fellow grappled by the neck with one hand.
If you don't hit the choke, you get -1 to dagger attacks, and he isn't silenced.
If your target has neck DR, subtract it from the base damage.


What do you need?

A very fine (+2 dmg), balanced (+1 skill) knife. This is x24 normal cost.
Which means $480 for a dagger, or $960 for a large knife. (Add +1 base dmg if using large knife)

24 character points. 2 combat perks to spare. If:
You're grappling with Judo.
You have Ambidexterity.

Add:
+1 if you're grappling with Wrestling.
+5 if you need Ambidexterity.
or
+1 to get a combat perk for offhand unarmed attacks only.
-5 if you want to stab twice instead of slicing. Change the damage of the second hit to the first. You will be less stylish.
-1 if you have only one combat perk to spare. -1 to hit with dagger.
or
-2 if you have none. -1 to hit with grapple. -2 to hit with dagger.


Read on if you want to understand where this came from.



THE COMBINATION

As far as I know, this is a realistic move (not using any cinematic rules) and looks damn cool.

This is both a Trademark Move (PU2: Perks, p.8) and a Combination (Martial Arts, p.80). (I'll list all the references at the end of the post)

Trademark Move: All-Out Grapple and Strike: Telegraphic Attack Choke Hold followed by Telegraphic Attack Combination (Knife Thrust/Neck Artery + Knife Tip Slash/Neck Artery)
Hit Modifiers: +3 to Choke Hold/ +3 to knife strikes
Damage: Thrust: weapon thrust + 5 (Injury = x2)
Tip Slash: weapon thrust + 3 (Injury = x2.5)
If you have ST 11 and are slitting an unprotected throat with a Dagger (because I think it's cooler than a large knife, but feel free to use that), this would give you a damage of (brackets are: (Minimum Damage/Average Damage/ Maximum Damage):
(1d+3)x2 (8/11/18) on the first hit
(1d+1)x2.5 (5/11.25/15) on the second hit

If you end with an effective skill of 15 or more (before telegraphic Attack), you have 4.63% chance to land a critical on each hit, and a chance of 9,04% of at least one. As a side benefit, it reduces the chance of a critical miss from 1,85% to 0,46% on each hit.
For 16 that's 9,26% each hit, and 17,66% for at least one.
You could change the combination to be without Telegraphic Attack and instead take turns to Evaluate your target. You'd have -1 to Hit and take 3 more turns of preparation compared to Telegraphic, but Evaluate factors in critical chance.

Wait, Set, where are all those bonuses coming from?
I'll explain, dear apprentice throat-slitter. Just don't use this on me.

For the Choke Hold to hit, you get:
-2 or -3 Defaulting from Judo or Wrestling, but you can buy all this off. (Costs 3 or 4 points, respectively)
-4 for using the off-hand, you can buy this off with Ambidexterity or Offhand Weapon Training perk or technique (Ambidexterity costs 5 points, the Technique would also cost 5 why would you buy that?, the perk costs 1 point only, but you'd need +20 points in Combat Skills.)
-2 for using one hand only, you cannot buy this off.
+4 for Telegraphic Attack (your target would get +2 to Defend, but you're clearly behind him. If not, go back to your Stealth classes and then come back)
+1 for Trademark Move. (Costs 1 point, you'll need +20 points in Combat Skills)

So you end up with +3 for the Choke Hold to hit.


For the knife strikes, you get the following hit modifiers:
-6 for Rapid Strike. You buy this off with Combination.
-8 for targeting the Neck Artery. You can buy this to -4 with Targeted Attack.
+4 for Telegraphic Attack.
+1 for Trademark Move. (You'll use the same 1 point from Choke Hold)
+1 for Neck Control. (1 Point and +20 points in Combat Skills)
+1 for a Balanced Knife (+4 CF (Cost Factor) to the weapon cost)

So you end up with +3 for both knife hits.


For the damage, you get:
+1 for a Reversed Grip.
+2 for a Strong Attack (thanks to All-Out Grapple and Strike)
+2 for a Very Fine knife. (adds +19 CF)
-2 for the Tip Slash.

So, you end with +5 to shove the knife deep in your friend's throat, and +3 to slit it open.


THE RESULTS

Well, assuming you land both hits (you have 98,15% chance to land each strike if you have 13 in both skills (which the scale sets as "ordinary people's skills they use for a living.") Why aren't you slitting throats for a living?), you'll deal at least 13 points of damage, an average of 22.5 points of damage, or up to 33 points of damage!. This with a ST score of 11, which is just a little above average. Why are you sentry-removing if you don't even lift, bro?

That means that an Average person of up to 11 ST will be instantly at 0 HP at worst, at -1xHP at average, and -2xHP if you're really lucky. He'll probably have to make one immediate HT roll, maybe a second at -1. He will have to make a HT roll on his turn, possibly at -1. He'll also be grappled by the head, guggling while you hold his mouth and probably pretty shocked and stunned. If he isn't stunned, it's time to put your Running and Climbing skills to practice.

You could stab him a few times in the kidneys, but it is way more stylish to just hold his head/mouth while waiting for him to bleed to unconsciousness. Possibly holding him against the wall, looking into his eyes and smiling like the murderous maniac you are.



WHAT DO YOU NEED? (because I like to put things out of order. Do, or do not.)

Read short version.


CONCLUSION

With a little (actually, quite some) training and an expensive knife, your characters can get pretty damn good at disposing of unwanted observing third parties who happen to be at the wrong place, at the wrong time.

I've spent way more time at this than I should. It's like 6 am and I've got to work this afternoon. I hate you, Kromm, in a good way.

Cheers everyone.


REFERENCES

Sites:
AnyDice. http://anydice.com/program/1
Wolfram|Alpha. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...4.63%25+chance, https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...9.26%25+chance

Books:
Basic Set. Damage Table, p.16. Technique Cost Table, p.230. Off-Hand Weapon Training, p. 232. Melee Weapon Table, p. 272. Evaluate, p.364.
Low-Tech. Weapons of Quality, p.59.
Martial Arts. Neck Control, Off-hand Weapon Training, p.50. Choke Hold, p.69. Combinations, p.80. Reversed Grip, p.111. Telegraphic Attack, Tip Slash, p. 113. Grab and Smash!, p.118. New Hit Locations, p. 137.
Power-Ups 2 - Perks. Trademark Move, p. 8.

Last edited by Set; 09-15-2017 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Added short version and explanation for Rapid Strike.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:43 AM   #2
corwyn
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Aren't you missing the -6 to each knife attack for a rapid strike? Also, you can't use All Out for damage since, afaict, you are using it to do two attacks, one to grapple and one to combination stab.

You also need a decent stealth to pull off this from surprise.
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Last edited by corwyn; 09-15-2017 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:07 AM   #3
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Hello welcome to the boards!

This is actually a subject that has come up a few time so for some alternative takes on this you might start

here

and

here

You might see references to TG aka Technical Grappling. This is optional extra supplement for grappling in general but it also covers armed grappling and caters nicely for this kind of attack. I think it is excellent, and I think it helps, but it is not required for doing what you want to do.



Right OK on to the suggestion. I think your right a telegraphic All out Attack including a combo will do the trick nicely here.

I wouldn't worry about invoking tip slashes. It's not what you really doing here, you're just sawing away at this chap's neck with a blade that already in there. Not trying to catch him with the very end of your swinging blade.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-15-2017 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:11 AM   #4
Set
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Combinations are Hard Techniques that allow someone to purchase off the -6 penalty to the Rapid Strikes of a specific combo of Targeted Attacks. This is on Martial Arts, p.80

All-Out Grapple and Strike is a type of attack that allow you to, quite literally, Grapple and Strike. They are on Martial Arts, p.118 (I forgot to put them in the References, will update.)
When you do that, you get Double (One for a Grapple, one for an Attack) and if that Attack is thrusting, you get the benefits for All-Out Attack (Strong).

Maybe that wouldn't apply in this case since you aren't really pulling the guy's head to the point of your knife, but you may push him, both for the dagger to dig deeper, and for it to cut deeper (Tip Slash). So I think it does apply.

@EDIT: On the matter of approaching silently.

High-Tech, p.158 gives a table in which a "stalking person" (i.e. someone who has succeeded their Stealth roll) is 0.25 yard the "normal range of hearing". To perform the Combination I mentioned with full surprise would require you to be within your half-move range (you can move half your move when using an All-Out Attack), which is probably 2.5 or 3, something like that. This gives you 3 steps above the normal hearing of someone stalking (and you are stalking), so the guy would have -3 to hearing.

I'd say the most reasonable way to deal with Stealth rolls against someone who is alert, but not specifically searching for something RIGHT NOW (i.e. he is not taking Concentrate each turn to look for trouble) is: roll once a Quick Contest Stealth vs Hearing (unmodified). If Stealth wins, it's over. If Hearing wins or if there is a tie, note how much of a penalty you'd have to give Hearing for it to lose - that is the distance (in hearing steps) at which the Stealth guy will be noted.
Depending on the distance, Hearing guy might still be partially surprised. If Stealth guy has Combat Reflexes and a higher Speed, he can probably act on the moment he notices Hearing guy noticed him. Therefore, having him partially surprised.

Last edited by Set; 09-15-2017 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:48 AM   #5
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Aren't you missing the -6 to each knife attack for a rapid strike?
Yep, but you can buy some of that off with the combination (TA Neck/arteries: Knife Thr, TA Neck/arteries: Knife cut) which I assumed was included in the 30ish point cost

Let see what we get.

Say he has Knife 14

TA:Neck Artery Thr maxed by +4 (cost 5pts) so that's 14-8+4 = 10

and

TA:Neck Artery Cut maxed to +4 (cost 5 pts) so 14-8+4 = 10

(the problem is to do a combo it's got to be different attacks which means two different TA's here)


So the 2 attack combo would be default (10-6, 10-6) or (4,4) but could be brought up to (10,10) for 9 pts.

so that's 19 pts for maxing out the two TA's and the double attack combo using the two TA's.

Once you add the telegraphic bonuses etc you get a pretty good chance


It is a specialised build that requires TA's and Combo costs, another 3-4pts for the maxing the Choke hold technique, plus the perks referenced. But yeah I think you get to 30ish points

OK now for 30 points you can buy a lot of knife and grappling skill that may mean you could get the same result* with a broader application.


*as in target grappled from behind and incapacitated really quickly, not exactly like for like attacks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Also, you can't use All Out for damage since, afaict, you are using it to do two attacks, one to grapple and one to combination stab.
You can get the bonus if you use the Grab and Smash rules (MApg118). If you were replacing the 2nd attack in the double with two attack Combo, I'd allow the damage bonus to apply to both if I thought it made sense. Which I do in this case, you're gong to be using your grapple to manipulate the neck while stabbing and sawing away at it after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
You also need a decent stealth to pull off this from surprise.

That's certainly true, and in fact is the hardest part of all of this. Surprise is the killer here, especially as your target may well be hampered by the partial or total surprise rules while you're doing all this.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-15-2017 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

The gentlemanly thing to do is announce yourself and give the man time to prepare to defend himself. Skulking is for cowards (and people who want to live more than they want to be gentlemen).

Also the OP is a heck of a lot of text for something that is pretty simple in reality, no wonder people think GURPS is too complicated. You could have written all of the key points there (the combination, and the grab and smash) in less than a hundred words.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-15-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
The gentlemanly thing to do is announce yourself and give the man time to prepare to defend himself. Skulking is for cowards (and people who want to live more than they want to be gentlemen).

Also the OP is a heck of a lot of text for something that is pretty simple in reality, no wonder people think GURPS is too complicated. You could have written all of the key points there (the combination, and the grab and smash) in less than a hundred words.
In that case gentlemen should not become commandos. But they were usually more practical then Alexander Dumas on actual battlefields. Wellington certainly did not announce that he had hidden an ambuscade on the other side of the hill, nor did Wavell announce that he was going to attack to the Italians before attacking them.
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:57 PM   #8
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Set View Post
.....

Maybe that wouldn't apply in this case since you aren't really pulling the guy's head to the point of your knife, but you may push him, both for the dagger to dig deeper, and for it to cut deeper (Tip Slash). So I think it does apply...
FWIW I think it's a very reasonable use of Grab and Strike
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Realistically, there ought to be a crippling
threshold for the throat.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: The guide to throat slitting (or sentry removal, for the gentlemen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Realistically, there ought to be a crippling
threshold for the throat.
Doesn't Martial Arts have this?
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