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Old 09-12-2017, 04:50 PM   #1
MIB.6361
 
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Default Jet Spell cost question

THIS HAS BEEN RESOLVED. PLEASE SEE MY POST BELOW.

I searched to see if this had been discussed before, but "jet" is too common and I didn't find anything.

Magic combat is already costly and less efficient than mundane combat, but it seems like jet spells penalize the wizard unduly.

For example:
Turn 1: Cast Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Maintain Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Attack with Flame Jet.

So before you can USE the jet spell, you have to pay for it twice? Am I missing something?
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Last edited by MIB.6361; 09-14-2017 at 02:47 PM. Reason: wee lil boots
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

I don't use vanilla magic that often, but if my memory serves right it is meant that you attack as you would with regular missile spell. The choice to maintain it skips the roll you would have to take to recast it. So you just pay the cost again without any roll

Edit for clarity:

Turn 1 cast jet
Turn 2 attack
Turn 3 maintain jet for same cost (as a free action), so you can chose to attack again.

The way I imagine it is basically a short beam you can keep going as long as you jeep pumping energy into it.

Last edited by JaJacob; 09-12-2017 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB.6361 View Post

For example:
Turn 1: Cast Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Maintain Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Attack with Flame Jet.

So before you can USE the jet spell, you have to pay for it twice? Am I missing something?
Yes, I think you're misreading how casting a jet spell generally goes. Jets are Regular spells. That means, you cast it, and you can immediately attack with it. There's no business of "Turn 1, cast and put in energy, Turn 2, either throw it or charge it further" the way there is with Missile spells. So jet spells are actually faster to cast than missiles, with comparable prices damage-wise. Their drawbacks are that a) they're expensive to maintain and hold "at the ready", and b) they're more limited in range than missiles.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Yes, I think you're misreading how casting a jet spell generally goes. Jets are Regular spells. That means, you cast it, and you can immediately attack with it. There's no business of "Turn 1, cast and put in energy, Turn 2, either throw it or charge it further" the way there is with Missile spells. So jet spells are actually faster to cast than missiles, with comparable prices damage-wise. Their drawbacks are that a) they're expensive to maintain and hold "at the ready", and b) they're more limited in range than missiles.
The way you describe it definitely works better than how I'm reading it.

However, Regular spells, unless otherwise specified, take 1 second to cast. That's your entire turn spend concentrating to make it happen. During that 1 second you can't also attack. Under time to cast it specifically says "your turn ends as soon as you roll the dice" in relation to casting time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaJacob View Post
Edit for clarity:
Turn 1 cast jet
Turn 2 attack
Turn 3 maintain jet for same cost (as a free action), so you can chose to attack again.
Doing it this way means you get the spell for free on turn 2. That's something I've considered doing but it isn't consistent with how the rest of magic and maintenance cost works.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB.6361 View Post
For example:
Turn 1: Cast Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Maintain Flame Jet - Spend 2 FP
Turn 2: Attack with Flame Jet.

So before you can USE the jet spell, you have to pay for it twice? Am I missing something?
There is some confusion in wording because spells changed from taking effect at the beginning of the turn after you cast it (3e) to the end of the turn you cast it (4e). But in either case no, you cast it, pay the cost, and then get to use it before the maintenance cost comes due, it's just in 3e it comes due the start of your turn, and 4e at the end. So 3e:

Turn 1, Cast spell, turn ends
Turn 2, Roll for spell skill, Pay 2 FP, jet forms, attack, turn ends.
Turn 3, Pay 2 FP to keep the spell going if you want....

4e:
Turn 1: Cast spell, Roll for spell skill, Spend 2 FP, jet forms, turn ends.
Turn 2: Attack something, pay 2 FP to keep the spell going if you want, turn ends.

Same sequence, differs only in where you insert the two "turn ends" dividers.

I suppose if you could parry with the jet and only paid the cost for 1 turn, the interval you could do that would have shifted from after your 2nd turn to after your first turn going from 3e to 4e (i.e. from after you could attack to before), but most jets can't parry anyway.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

I'm with malloyd here: you cast the spell (Concentrate) and pay for it, then Attack with it (or All-Out-Attack, or Move-and-Attack) on turn 2 and choose if you want to maintain it for turn 3.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
4e:
Turn 1: Cast spell, Roll for spell skill, Spend 2 FP, jet forms, turn ends.
Turn 2: Attack something, pay 2 FP to keep the spell going if you want, turn ends.
This is how my group has played it. But I think a house rule allowing you to attack the turn you cast a jet would be appropriate.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
This is how my group has played it. But I think a house rule allowing you to attack the turn you cast a jet would be appropriate.
I would go with a style perk. It’s basically allowing Fast-Draw for Jets.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-13-2017 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

OK! After discussion with my friendly neighborhood rules lawyer, I realize what was missing from my view of this. The first turn is spent casting, but does NOT count as the duration of the spell.

Turn 1: Cast spell, pay FP, Flame Jet erupts from your hand. Spell will NOW last for 1 second.

Turn 2: Attack with Jet. 1 second duration ends, decide to pay FP to maintain.


I knew it couldn't be the wonky double cost situation I thought it was.

Thank you all for being party to this discussion.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jet Spell cost question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Yes, I think you're misreading how casting a jet spell generally goes. Jets are Regular spells. That means, you cast it, and you can immediately attack with it. There's no business of "Turn 1, cast and put in energy, Turn 2, either throw it or charge it further" the way there is with Missile spells. So jet spells are actually faster to cast than missiles, with comparable prices damage-wise. Their drawbacks are that a) they're expensive to maintain and hold "at the ready", and b) they're more limited in range than missiles.
We've always interpreted it like this too.
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