Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Ogre and G.E.V. > Ogre Video Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-18-2017, 08:29 AM   #61
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: I was hoping for this

If I was programming an overrun defense AI I'd target Ogre SBs only if my overall force wasn't GEV heavy.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2017, 08:35 AM   #62
GranitePenguin
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by AurochJake View Post
Almost exactly this. We considered the fairest way to resolve this while also taking into account the time it would take to resolve an Overrun combat stage, so we came to the decision that the Defender in Overrun is controlled by the AI.

We'd be keen to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I appreciate it takes some control away from the player, but Overrun could literally take weeks to resolve otherwise, so we thought this to be the fairest compromise.
I'd be ok with that as long as it's optional (i.e., a setting you can enable/disable, or a mode you can choose when the overrun happens). Is it something that happens only during "turn play" or does it also happen when you are playing "live"? I would not be happy if I was the defense and never got to play in the overrun. The best part about being the defense in an overrun is enjoying the fact you forced it. Imagine having an Ogre on the defense, it would be a real bummer if you didn't get to play the Ogre just because it's in an overrun; that's the BEST time to have an Ogre. Not getting to enjoy that when possible would suck (but it's a good example of when AI would be helpful if PBEM).

On a related note, how are you handling Cruise Missile attacks? The out-of-turn aspect is similar. Choosing when to fire at the CM matters.
__________________
GranitePenguin
MIB #2214
GranitePenguin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2017, 10:40 AM   #63
offsides
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
I'd be ok with that as long as it's optional (i.e., a setting you can enable/disable, or a mode you can choose when the overrun happens). Is it something that happens only during "turn play" or does it also happen when you are playing "live"? I would not be happy if I was the defense and never got to play in the overrun. The best part about being the defense in an overrun is enjoying the fact you forced it. Imagine having an Ogre on the defense, it would be a real bummer if you didn't get to play the Ogre just because it's in an overrun; that's the BEST time to have an Ogre. Not getting to enjoy that when possible would suck (but it's a good example of when AI would be helpful if PBEM).
I was going to suggest something similar. My preference would be for 3 possible options, with one of them to be selected as part of the initial game setup:
  1. Defender gets their turn every time (except possibly if there's only one possible action, in which case the computer does it and just notifies the defender of the result).
  2. Defender is given a certain amount of time to take their turn before the AI takes it for them (amount of time configurable as part of the game setup).
  3. Defender is AI controlled every time.

Option 2 allows the defender a chance to control things in an overrun if they really want to, but also prevents the game from stagnating too badly. Heck, that could also be put in place for full turns, though I'd expect the timeout for overruns to be in hours or even minutes, while full turns would be in days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
On a related note, how are you handling Cruise Missile attacks? The out-of-turn aspect is similar. Choosing when to fire at the CM matters.
This I'm actually OK with the AI handling, letting it decide the optimal time to fire at the CM. Depending on how it's written it might involve a little "cheating" on the AI's part by knowing if the CM is going to jink away or not, but you could also just have each unit automatically fire as soon as it's in range. It really only makes a difference if there's a chance the CM will cross a distance boundary for an extra +1 on the roll - this is also something that could potentially be configurable on each player's part, though that might be more fiddly than it's worth...
__________________
Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division
offsides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2017, 03:53 PM   #64
dwalend
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by AurochJake View Post
Almost exactly this. We considered the fairest way to resolve this while also taking into account the time it would take to resolve an Overrun combat stage, so we came to the decision that the Defender in Overrun is controlled by the AI.

We'd be keen to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I appreciate it takes some control away from the player, but Overrun could literally take weeks to resolve otherwise, so we thought this to be the fairest compromise.
Before I judge I'd like to just know what the targeting decisions are going to be. Some decisions are easy like: "For identical units, shoot the one with the most movement left first."

Especially in the case of ogres (especially missiles), but also in the case of lots of different kinds of targets I want to control based on context of the whole battle. (Overruns also support combined fire, but the usual answer is one gun per target.) I don't think you can build something that doesn't consider the context of the whole battle and what my objectives are and get it right in these cases. From my work at BAE getting someone to state "what my objectives are" is really hard.

If I can set targeting very precisely then it'd probably be OK for both sides of the overrun to be resolved without the players - not just the defense. (But give us some automation to watch the firefight.) That's probably more realistic in the game, too. In an overrun the field commander doesn't get to point the guns; the tank crews do that.

Last edited by dwalend; 08-18-2017 at 04:03 PM.
dwalend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2017, 05:05 PM   #65
tomc
 
tomc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by AurochJake View Post
Almost exactly this. We considered the fairest way to resolve this while also taking into account the time it would take to resolve an Overrun combat stage, so we came to the decision that the Defender in Overrun is controlled by the AI.
I really like the way this fits the theme. The enemy is in your face now, and there's no time to plan, decide, or communicate orders. Let the chips fall where they may.
__________________
OgreMap2

Freedom of Speech is not Freedom of Podium
tomc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 11:05 AM   #66
AurochJake
Moderator
 
AurochJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bristol, UK
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
Before I judge I'd like to just know what the targeting decisions are going to be. Some decisions are easy like: "For identical units, shoot the one with the most movement left first."
I'll add this to the list of questions which we'll try and address, in as much detail as possible, in our interview post with the designers :)
AurochJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 11:12 PM   #67
GranitePenguin
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by AurochJake View Post
I'll add this to the list of questions which we'll try and address, in as much detail as possible, in our interview post with the designers :)
Cool. Very much looking forward to it. :-)
__________________
GranitePenguin
MIB #2214
GranitePenguin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 11:44 AM   #68
GranitePenguin
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Looking at the new screen caps...

You show a 5:1 attack as an example. That would be an auto-kill; is there anything special you plan to do for the cases where a roll is unnecessary?

Related: will animations be something you can turn on/off? I have a feeling they will get repetitive after a while and you may want to streamline the time to play and just show the results.
__________________
GranitePenguin
MIB #2214
GranitePenguin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 11:48 AM   #69
GranitePenguin
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Setting a waypoint: How does the system handle movement over long distances? If there are multiple paths to the same place, do you just set the destination, or do you define the entire path? There are good reasons not to take a direct path that should be addressed.
__________________
GranitePenguin
MIB #2214
GranitePenguin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 09:23 AM   #70
AurochJake
Moderator
 
AurochJake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bristol, UK
Default Re: I was hoping for this

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
Setting a waypoint: How does the system handle movement over long distances? If there are multiple paths to the same place, do you just set the destination, or do you define the entire path? There are good reasons not to take a direct path that should be addressed.
You define the exact path you wish to take, because as you say, there are advantages and disadvantages to certain routes :)

Also, per your message above, the 5:1 is indeed an automatic win so there would be no dice roll required in this instance. The game does recognise this and doesn't show a roll.

Re: animations, you will indeed have the option to turn them off. We're currently in the process of streamlining some of the animations as they went on for slightly too long or had delayed starts. Hopefully you'll all be pleased with how they turn out!

Thanks a lot.
AurochJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.