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Old 08-23-2017, 11:53 PM   #2901
sir_pudding
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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
It first appeared in After the End, I've used it ever since.
On PK's MyGURPS for a decade or so, too.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:11 AM   #2902
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On PK's MyGURPS for a decade or so, too.
I admit I only check his page every decade or so...
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:21 AM   #2903
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I noticed coins are now 1/20/400 instead of 1/4/80.
Which I thought was neat as that's what I've been using in my GURPS fantasy games for 25+ years.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:45 AM   #2904
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FWIW, I absolutely plan to make a fillable version of the DFRPG character sheet as I did for the standard one. It will be posted for download... whenever is appropriate? I'm sure there will be others.
That would be awesome. You'll certainly get the necessary green light if you want to do this!
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:53 AM   #2905
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Discussion Thread

I put up a brief review:

DF RPG Brief Review

and created a tag for discussing the game, since we've moved our long-running DF game over to it (at least in terms of using Exploits and Spells as our base books).
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:03 AM   #2906
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In the new system, I don't see any reason the barbarian wouldn't wear the best armor she could afford covering her entire body.
Nothing says a barbarian can't do that!

But a starting barbarian is likely to drop 9 points to max out Tough Skin for DR 3, paying for better than half of that with five quirks. Then she'll take Struggling [-10] and still have $500, which is enough to slap on heavy leather armor ($450) for a net DR 5 and get an inexpensive weapon (any weapon is great with ST 17+). At 36 lbs., such armor won't encumber someone with ST 17+, even with a weapon. In play, trading off such armor for something better comes at minimal "waste" in terms of cash and none in terms of character points – and Struggling doesn't limit the barbarian much unless she has no friends to buy and sell for her.

Extra money is always a possibility, but it's capped at 5 points (from quirks), so it nets $2,500. Choosing a disadvantage other than Struggling means having $1,000 + $2,500 = $3,500, which can buy heavy scale armor ($3,300) for DR 5, plus a weapon. At 120 lbs., such armor plus a weapon is hefty enough to put a barbarian at Medium encumbrance at ST 17, and Light up to ST 24. And the first time better armor is found, the 5 points traded for wealth are effectively "wasted." Plus not choosing Struggling means picking a problem that's likely to remain more limiting in the future.

There are hybrid cases; e.g., get Tough Skin 3 and trade 5 points for cash, choose Struggling because it's easily avoided later, buy segmented plate (DR 4, $2,700, 72 lbs.) for total DR 7, and raise ST enough to avoid being encumbered. Nothing wrong with that! But 5 points are still "wasted" in a sense, and there's still 36 lbs. less carrying capacity for weapons and loot.

In all cases, barbarians also have huge HP and can afford to take hits, so the armor isn't as important as it is for others . . . especially when you take into account mandatory High Pain Threshold and options like the new and improved Very Rapid Healing ("I heal the barbarian for 8 HP . . . oh, wait, with HP 22 and VRH, that's 24 HP!").

Knights are very privileged in the armor department because they can get Armor Mastery, which allows unpenalized layering and bonus DR. Trading 5 points for money to end up with $3,500 allows such cheese as segmented plate over heavy cloth, for net DR 7 and no DX penalty. Granted, all those "wasted points" and encumbrance problems pertain. On the other hand, a knight is less likely to be a cunning outdoorsman who wants to use Climbing, Stealth, and Swimming to stalk opponents, so being encumbered is less of a big deal. A knight also can't rely on HP to soak as much injury. And if the knight happens to find armor, chances are he can layer it with some of his existing armor (say, replacing the heavy cloth with mail while keeping the segmented plate, or replacing the segmented plate with lighter, higher-DR brigandine, plate, or heavy plate while keeping the heavy cloth), so there's less waste.

All told, it's largely flowery writing anyway, but there are definitely differences between "I can have Tough Skin and loads of HP, and get by with lower Wealth" and "I can have Armor Mastery to exploit the heck out of almost any armor I find."
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:27 AM   #2907
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Nothing says a barbarian can't do that!
I like that DF/DFRPG barbarians are free to wear all the armor they want (none of that "Your class can't can't wear armor because... because" nonsense). There's nothing wrong with the concept of a heavily-armored barbarian warrior. (DFRPG, to its credit, doesn't try to pretend otherwise; Exploits p88 notes armor as a good reward for the profession.)

Even the DF SM+1 barbarian is hardly forbidden from wearing armor; yes, his armor weighs twice as much, but he can schlep nearly 3x what a normal person can (and x1.5 what the knight can, so even relative to Mr Tin Can, he's never been horribly hampered in armor capabilities).

On top of that, even the DF barbarian has always come with the option of enjoying normal armor weights: just build an SM 0 version.

All that said, I like DF's built-in disincentive for piling armor into the stock big barbarian. For those of us who'd like to nudge DFRPG's barbarians toward that same look... hmm, your discussion of cost and cash is a help – though, as you note, that's a matter of starting wealth. After enough treasure hauls, even the barbarians are going to be able to afford all the normal armor they want. (Then again, even DF's big barbarians eventually become able to purchase all the armor they want, so it's not some new thing unique to DFRPG...)

That's where knights' Armor Mastery makes a difference, as you note. Though I'd been wondering whether there should be some corresponding "unarmored mastery" to further buff barbarians in the buff: say, cheap Enhanced Dodge or extra-cheap Tough Skin that only work in the absence of armor. But those sound... forced. Meh. Hmm, maybe an advantage (probably a cousin to Berserk) that lets barbarians fight with more focused fury when wounded (something armor would prevent)? That'd be more interesting, though I haven't tried to work it out...

For now, I have no nifty ideas for keeping SM 0, ST 17 warriors away from full, heavy armor. Let's just see how it goes with DFRPG. Maybe its barbarians will tend to stay lightly armored the way we like 'em, thanks to 1) the cost issue, 2) good non-armor protection (HP, Tough Skin), 3) the benefit of keeping Climbing, Stealth, and Swimming high (a good point!), and 4) plain ol' "But I want to play a bare-chested Conan type!"
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:37 AM   #2908
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That's where knights' Armor Mastery makes a difference, as you note. Though I'd been wondering whether there should be some corresponding "unarmored mastery" to further buff barbarians in the buff: say, cheap Enhanced Dodge or extra-cheap Tough Skin that only work in the absence of armor. But those sound... forced. Meh. Hmm, maybe an advantage (probably a cousin to Berserk) that lets barbarians fight with more focused fury when wounded (something armor would prevent)? That'd be more interesting, though I haven't tried to work it out...
Naked Rage should still be usable as is, I think.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:03 PM   #2909
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I like that DF/DFRPG barbarians are free to wear all the armor they want (none of that "Your class can't can't wear armor because... because" nonsense). There's nothing wrong with the concept of a heavily-armored barbarian warrior. (DFRPG, to its credit, doesn't try to pretend otherwise; Exploits p88 notes armor as a good reward for the profession.)
While mostly missing from the movies, book Conan wore armor when it was appropriate.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:04 PM   #2910
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Then again, even DF's big barbarians eventually become able to purchase all the armor they want, so it's not some new thing unique to DFRPG...
It isn't so much the cost I've found hampers Barbs, but the weight.

With everything they carry weighing more, bigger Barbs end up either really spending a lot of dosh [on weight reduction Enchantments], or just carrying less (armor that is).

A concern I hear when stacking on the heavy armor is "But then I lose my Move of 8+!". Movement is life after all.

Quote:
That's where knights' Armor Mastery makes a difference, as you note. Though I'd been wondering whether there should be some corresponding "unarmored mastery" to further buff barbarians in the buff: say, cheap Enhanced Dodge or extra-cheap Tough Skin that only work in the absence of armor.
DF Denizens barbarians has that covered.

Or 'uncovered' as it were.

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... plain ol' "But I want to play a bare-chested Conan type!"
heh. But other characters complain about my bare-chested Barbarian Ogress...
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