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Old 03-04-2017, 11:48 AM   #141
tshiggins
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Today's questions:

24) Are nation states still major political players?
I vote yes, as well, since the combination of wealth and power at the disposal of nation-state governments makes them into juggernauts difficult to dissolve. However, I do favor a true multi-polar international system, rather than a single global hegemony with a bunch of wanna-be rivals.

If this vote prevails, I'd prefer that the major players consist of the United States (with the British and the Commonwealth as close allies); the EU (led by Germany and France, with Sub-Saharan African nations as close allies); India (allied with Japan and other nations in east and southeast Asia); China (reunified with Taiwan and now a somewhat xenophobic oligarchy with sometimes-reluctant client states in Nepal, Bhutan, and the Philippines, and a very reluctant client in Mongolia); and Russia (now a primarily Muslim nation, allied with most of the Islamic world, but with bitter enemies in more socially-progressive Muslim nations such as Jordan, and coldly hostile relations with Ukraine, Georgia and other EU members).

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25) Does the UN still exist?
I'd vote yes, but with an altered role. In the Sol system, it primarily remains a debating society and means by which nations technically hostile to one another may engage in (sometimes vitally important) backdoor diplomacy.

I also like the notion that it governs the gate consortium, and that could have happened if the technology was discovered by an angel inventor who transferred the rights to that body.


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26) How much power does it have over the colonies?
26B, in that it has considerable "soft" power, as the arbiter of disputes and operator of the web of gates. While technically the UN couldn't unilaterally prevent a ship from passing through without a vote from the Security Council, it gets to set priorities, conduct inspections in the name of keeping the gate network safe, and set its own rates according to perceived ability to pay. Basically, it can act in ways to increase the hassle and "friction" of interstellar travel to the planetary systems, and generally interfere with traffic and trade to problematic colonies.
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Old 03-04-2017, 01:06 PM   #142
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24) Yes, because mega-corporations were ground out in their infancy by anti-trust suits, while transnational unions became increasingly dominated by one or two major powers because of war.

My preferred major players are the United States (with an America-centric sphere of influence), Norway & Poland (Norway dominating the west, Poland the east, but working together), China (Dominating East Asia), India (Dominating South Asia), Tunisia (Dominating Africa north of the Congo), and a space based power (Dominating the moon).

25) The UN still exists but was reformed in the wake of World War 3, to reflect the shift in the World Order, removing Russia, Britain, and France and adding India, Poland, & Tunisia. Norway was added later because of pressure from Poland, the space based power was added as part of the so-called Gate Treaty.

26B) The UN controls the gates, and has police powers in international space. The UNSC can reverse decisions by the UN Space Force, but are loath to do it because it weakens the authority of a force that can keep its opponents in check.

Last edited by TGLS; 03-04-2017 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 03-04-2017, 04:30 PM   #143
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Today's questions:

24) Are nation states still major political players?

Vote: yes, while the top tier of corporations have significant influence, major national and regional governments are still the biggest beasts out there.


25) Does the UN still exist?

Vote: yes the UN (or a successor, possibly the gate consortium) still exists.


26) How much power does it have over the colonies?

A) broad powers, with significant means to enforce them.

B) strictly limited powers, with significant means to enforce them.

C) little or no real power away from earth.

Vote: b, the UN's powers both on and off earth are significant but very tightly defined. Off earth it mostly exists as a claims registry and arbiter in territorial disputes.
I agree with Frost on the 24/25/26. As for which countries are the major players I think China, India, Pambazuka (Pan-Africa south of the Sahara), Turkic Union (Central Asia), European Federation, North America States and Latin American Union.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:26 PM   #144
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The next set of votes tallied:

24) six votes, one ambiguous. Yes 6, No 0

Nation states are still major players, although we need more detail on how big they are and how they are organised.

25) six votes,one ambiguous. Yes 6, No 0

The UN (or a recognisable successor) exists.

26) six votes. A 0, B 5, C 1

The UN has limited power over the colonies. Again we will have to find more details.

Last edited by Frost; 03-05-2017 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 03-05-2017, 03:54 PM   #145
Frost
 
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Today's questions.

27) How have nations developed?

A) Regional or identity politics dominates leading to smaller states or occasionally loose confederations of independent states built on language or culture.

B) Moderate tendency toward consolidation leading to relatively tight confederations dominated by one or two major powers.

C) Strong tendency toward consolidation leading to the formation of large federal states.

Vote: a, this is probably the most interesting option. It gives us a world that has solidly multipolar politics, conflicting jurisdictions and potentially strong but not overwhelming corporations by default. It also plays well with the strong UN that seems to be a popular option.


28) What is the balance of power within the UN?

A) The security council completely dominates the organisation, the general assembly is an ineffectual talking shop.

B) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour the security council.

C) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour of the general assembly.

D) The security council is irrelevant/ abolished.

Vote: b, as far as I can see a stronger UN with a more democratic general assembly is logical given my vote for 27. However a strong security council gives it the ability to react quickly and if it suits the setting in a heavy handed fashion.

Votes will be tallied after 03:00pm tomorrow.

Last edited by Frost; 03-05-2017 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 03-05-2017, 04:50 PM   #146
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
27) How have nations developed?

A) Regional or identity politics dominates leading to smaller states or occasionally loose confederations of independent states built on language or culture.

B) Moderate tendency toward consolidation leading to relatively tight confederations dominated by one or two major powers.

C) Strong tendency toward consolidation leading to the formation of large federal states.
27) A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
28) What is the balance of power within the UN?

A) The security council completely dominates the organisation, the general assembly is an ineffectual talking shop.

B) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour the security council.

C) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour of the general assembly.

D) The security council is irrelevant/ abolished.
28) B.
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:10 PM   #147
tshiggins
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Today's questions.

27) How have nations developed?
27B). The presence of so many large states, especially with the rise of India and China, puts small states at a tremendous disadvantage. They can address the disadvantage by combining into larger international arrangements so as to compete more effectively, and defend themselves more easily.

The dissolution of a state so obviously cripples the ability of its people to compete internationally that, while it may happen from time to time, those would be exceptional cases. Moreover, given how obviously wrong the choice is, I can't see too many people moving that way, over the long term.

Throw in the fact that larger international coalitions will have tremendous advantages when it comes to the difficulty and expense of interstellar colonization, and the notion that states would be permitted to disintegrate is rather absurd.


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28) What is the balance of power within the UN?
28B). If the UN controls the gate consortium, it has some real clout and that means the general assembly will exercise more significant influence. That said, states only surrender sovereignty very reluctantly, and I can't see why the members of the security council would willingly loosen their grip, too much.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:28 PM   #148
Flaco76
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Today's questions.

27) How have nations developed?

A) Regional or identity politics dominates leading to smaller states or occasionally loose confederations of independent states built on language or culture.

B) Moderate tendency toward consolidation leading to relatively tight confederations dominated by one or two major powers.

C) Strong tendency toward consolidation leading to the formation of large federal states.


28) What is the balance of power within the UN?

A) The security council completely dominates the organisation, the general assembly is an ineffectual talking shop.

B) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour the security council.

C) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour of the general assembly.

D) The security council is irrelevant/ abolished.

Votes will be tallied after 03:00pm tomorrow.
27) B
28) B
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:40 PM   #149
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
27) How have nations developed?

A) Regional or identity politics dominates leading to smaller states or occasionally loose confederations of independent states built on language or culture.

B) Moderate tendency toward consolidation leading to relatively tight confederations dominated by one or two major powers.

C) Strong tendency toward consolidation leading to the formation of large federal states.
27) Just to be difficult, I'd actually go with D- All of the above, with a different tendency dominating in each system, probably depending on each of their individual historical circumstances. This is how I'd characterise modern Earth, substituting systems for continents. Also, I'm not sure how we can reconcile answer C especially, but B as well, with our votes for questions 19 and 20-
Quote:
19) The typical colonial government controls:
C) a single region (or equivalent) or 1-5 small bodies or habitats.


19) eight votes. A 0, B 1, C 7
Colonies occupy selected regions of large bodies or small groups of habitats or minor bodies.

20) How much autonomy does a typical colony have?
B) colonies control their internal affairs but remain subordinate to outside interests.


20) eight votes. A 2, B 6, C 0
Most colonies are autonomous but not fully independent.
The votes for these point more towards splittist tendencies than confederalist, with more, smaller states than few, large ones, I'd've thought.

Quote:
28) What is the balance of power within the UN?

A) The security council completely dominates the organisation, the general assembly is an ineffectual talking shop.

B) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour the security council.

C) Both entities have significant influence but the balance of power is in favour of the general assembly.

D) The security council is irrelevant/ abolished.
28) D- It was recognised as being a boys' club with too much power in too few hands and not representing the interests of the majority of the world, so was abolished.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:55 PM   #150
TGLS
 
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27B) I'll go with this one; this should allow for power blocs surrounding great powers.

28B) The Security Council has most of the power and controls day-to-day activities. The General Assembly has the non-insignificant power of adding/removing/censuring great powers from the Security Council as well as other less important powers. However, they need a supramajority to do this so changes in Security Council permanent members are rare.
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