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Old 01-26-2017, 05:58 AM   #1
sten
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

A simple scenario -
Player 1 fights a monster he automatically defeats (E.g., lvl1 vs. "The Churninator")
Player 2 wanders in a monster that doesn't die automatically but that player 1 can still defeat.

Now another card is played - one that cancels the combat (let's say "Friendship Potion" or "Deus Ex Machinegun" but really any card which immediately ends combat).

The question - does player 1 goes up a level since he has killed the first monster, or doesn't he since the combat was ended by a no-kills card?
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:45 AM   #2
MunchkinMan
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

The Churninator does not end the combat, and unless I'm forgetting some new statement from Andrew, the situation you presented would provide no Levels from the instant kill of a Level 1 or 2 Monster by The Churninator
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

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Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
some new statement from Andrew
here you go: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=146089
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
The general rule, as already expressed, is that you cannot use Friendship Potion or a similar effect to deprive someone of the levels from a monster that they have autokilled (for instance, by using the Potion of Halitosis on the Floating Nose).

You can wander in a new monster, and if the munchkins have to Run Away from the combat, they lose the level for the autokilled monster (because the rules say when you Run Away, you don't get ANY rewards).
Which does not contradict what I said, so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply.
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Last edited by MunchkinMan; 02-09-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:47 AM   #5
kotya
 
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

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Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
the situation you presented would provide no Levels from the instant kill of a Level 1 or 2 Monster by The Churninator
why? A player kills The Churninator automatically, so based on Andrew's ruling, they should get a level from it even if the combat would be cancelled.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:02 AM   #6
Mr_Draco
 
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

I'm confused by the different rulings as well. Let's say there are two different scenarios.

1)
- Player A plays Churninator to auto kill a monster.
- Player B tries to play Friendship Potion to prevent the level from being gained.

According to Andrew, Player A would still get the level.

2)
- Player A plays Churninator to auto kill a monster.
- Player B wanders in a monster to keep the combat going.
- Player B then plays Friendship Potion to prevent the level from being gained.

According to Munchkin, Player A would not get the level.

Does the different rulings revolve around rather a monster was wandered in?
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Old 02-10-2017, 04:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

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Originally Posted by Mr_Draco View Post
Does the different rulings revolve around rather a monster was wandered in?
If my understanding is correct, yes. There is at most one combat per turn, even if the participating monster count is reduced to 0 in the middle of combat. Combat ends when and only when:
- The players' side Runs Away
- A card forces combat to end.
- No more cards are played, the two sides' combat strengths are compared, and a winner is declared.

Different cards that end combat do it in different ways. Some, like Friendship Potion, are as if combat never happened . Others may end the combat as if the players' side won...that's where the hang-up seems to reside.

In scenario 1, Friendship Potion doesn't have a target. There are 0 monsters participating in combat, so Player B doesn't have anything to play the Friendship Potion on. Since no other cards are played combat ends, the player is victorious (strength of the player's side is higher than the strength of the monster's side), and the player gets the rewards.

In scenario 2, the participating monster count drops to 0. Another player uses Wandering Monster to bring the monster count up to 1, at which point Friendship Potion has a valid target. Combat is aborted, so whether or not the player is victorious is never checked, no winner is declared, and no rewards are gained.

For Andrew specifically: If this is wrong please correct me so that I can do my job better!
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Last edited by TheAmishStig; 02-10-2017 at 05:14 PM. Reason: Apparently, I can't spell Andrew.
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:45 PM   #8
MunchkinMan
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

I'd forgotten about the Friendship Potion being brought into play after the Wandering Monster.

Given Andrew's post, the Level(s) would remain as part of the reward.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:56 AM   #9
TheAmishStig
 
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
I'd forgotten about the Friendship Potion being brought into play after the Wandering Monster.

Given Andrew's post, the Level(s) would remain as part of the reward.
In which case...what are the steps for adjudication on something like this? I'm a backup host for an upcoming tournament, and would like to be ready for a similar but not exact situation to come up, and more importantly be able to make the correct call.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:59 PM   #10
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Automatic kills and combat cancel cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
In which case...what are the steps for adjudication on something like this? I'm a backup host for an upcoming tournament, and would like to be ready for a similar but not exact situation to come up, and more importantly be able to make the correct call.
This is getting well past 101-level content. If you want to ask a general question about how to craft fair rulings in a Munchkin game, please start a new thread in the main Munchkin forum.
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