Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2015, 08:10 PM   #11
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

I find that the two systems go together better than swimmingly. I have always disliked the Standard magic system, but after having seen how it interacts with RPM and the two flourish in the same setting I really like it much better

I've used a few silly little house rules of course, but I think that is common

One I particularly like is 'Magery 0 is Magery 0 is Magery 0', Magery 0 is the same for RPMists or Magic Mages, it defines 'yes, you are a mage' for purposes of using magic items, and allows mage sense and avoids the -5 penalty for non mages doing RPM

Other one is 'RPM Alchemy does not require Magery 0', Magic Magic alchemy doesn't require Magery, so I find it very grating that RPM Alchemy does. However, higher levels of Alchemy still require either RPM Magery, or RPM Magery, Alchemy Only (however, RPM Magery, Alchemy only isn't really a form of Magery, I just haven't come up with a better name for it, as someone who only has it registers as non magical to mage sense as a meteoric iron ingot))

If I ever got around to actually redoing and naming stuff, RPM Magery would become hmm, RPM Capacity or something, RPM Magery would be 'the 10 pt talent that adds to RPM spells' to line up with Magic Magery as 'the 10pt talent that adds to Magic Magic spells' (I currently allow 'the 10pt Talent which adds to RPM', I just name it 'RPM Talent')

The notion that RPM Magery and Magic Magic Magery both are named 'Magery' has really caused endless confusion among my compadres, especially as they do very different things . . . . I think that is actually far and away the biggest problem in using both systems side by side
Kalzazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 08:13 PM   #12
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

I think the RPM mage is much more flexible but the standard mage can do more things the RPM never can.
Magic has a lot of Absolute spells in it.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
Pyramid Writers Group Pt II
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 08:19 PM   #13
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

I must disagree with Ghostdancer though, I personally find Magic Magic casters to be much more likely to be throwing around tons of buffs, and that RPM Mages are much more likely to be using charms to just out and out throw damage downrange.

Absolute effects like Resist Fire and Missile Shield, and cheap low hanging spells like Haste make for great buffing, and Great Haste is a spell that RPM buffing has no answer for, yet slow to cast, expensive direct damage spells get forgotten easily by magic magic mages, while even a modestly powerful RPMist can have a charm ready to deliver a mighty External wallop, or a still fairly mighty save or eat damage malediction charm.

The most awesome RPM / Magic Magic team up I've seen involved RPM and Magic Magic buffing, first the Magic Magic mage used Enlarge Other and Enlarge Object to make the elf swordsman SM+5, then the RPMist topped him off. Then the RPMist used Bestows a bonus to give him extra happy fun per die damage bonuses, after the Magic Magic Mage had made him SM+5 so he had like ST 117 or such for a whole slew of dice to get said bonus

(I can try to find the thread, but RPK at one point discussed the option of converting +2 to +1 per die)


edit - here we go, this thread! http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ighlight=bonus
Kalzazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 03:01 AM   #14
Kuroshima
MIB
Pyramid Contributor
Mad Spaniard Rules Lawyer
 
Kuroshima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
I must disagree with Ghostdancer though, I personally find Magic Magic casters to be much more likely to be throwing around tons of buffs, and that RPM Mages are much more likely to be using charms to just out and out throw damage downrange.
I disagree with both you and Ghostdancer, though only in part (and that means that I also partially agree with both of you).

First, RPM casters can pack a might wallop, if they prepared for it. It's however not the most efficient use of their abilities. Unless the RPM user allocated some of their limited charm slots to the damage spell, they literally can't cast a decent damage spell when things get hairy.

On the other hand, GURPS Magic casters are more likely to resort to damage spells when they can't do anything else, because they usually know at least one, and even when caught by surprise, they can use it as effectively as usual.

As for buffs, both RPM casters and Magic casters are awesome buffers, but as detailed below, the nature of the buffs might be different.

Quote:
Absolute effects like Resist Fire and Missile Shield, and cheap low hanging spells like Haste make for great buffing, and Great Haste is a spell that RPM buffing has no answer for, yet slow to cast, expensive direct damage spells get forgotten easily by magic magic mages, while even a modestly powerful RPMist can have a charm ready to deliver a mighty External wallop, or a still fairly mighty save or eat damage malediction charm.
Some effects, like force dome/wall and and resist X are outside of the scope of RPM. Other cheap buffs are extremely hard to cast with RPM (Great Haste is perfectly doable in RPM, Greater Strengthen Body, plus 100 points worth of altered traits, making it a 300 and change energy spell). On the other hand, buffing by a Magic caster usually has lower duration (if maintenance is not free) or lower magnitude (if maintenance is free). Magic buffing also penalizes all other spellcasting (due to the spells on penalty). RPM buffing will usually go for bigger buffs (since you can't stack loads of small buffs effectively due to the stacking rules), and making buffs lasting is usually easy and cheap, plus it does not penalize anything.
__________________
Antoni Ten
MIB3119
My GURPs character sheet
My stuff on e23
Kuroshima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 12:30 PM   #15
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

True. It may be very well that using charms for attack spells is not the ideal use of charm slots, but I do tend to find people tend to devote several charm slots to out and out attack spells (under the idea that charms are used for 'I must cast this spell right now', and in those cases you usually want to be hitting something, and buffing and utility stuff can be done in the field)

Also people just like being able to (with the help of grimoires and charm labs etc) be able to roll out 'if this spell hits, it is going to HURT!' type spells

For instance, heres a straight up 'Here it be, defend or eat damage!' attack spell used by me recently

Touch of the Sun
Spell Effects: Greater Create Energy.Inherent Modifiers: Damage, External Burning + Range + Speed.Greater Effects: 1 (3).

Touch of the Sun - Calls into being the gentle caress of the Sun's Warmth

This Casting: Greater Create Energy (6) + Lesser Control Magic (5) + Damage, External Burning 201d (264) + Range, 200 yds (12) + Speed, 200 yds/second (12). 897 energy (2993).

Of course, being an external attack spell, and not having enough skill to both actually get the spell anywhere close to the target it and be deceptive at the same time it just dodged it, so was a completely wasted round of battle and charm slot

And it is like 4 times safe threshhold, even accounting for grimoire and charm lab . . . . . so unless I had Luck available in case I fumbled the charm would not risk using it

But still. If it HAD hit, it would have brought the pain to the monster we were fighting
Kalzazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #16
Nosforontu
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

Last game we played in that featured a RPM caster who 18 charm slots, had 6 slots built as nice big booms using external A.O.E. effects with the spell modded so the party would not be damaged by the spell. Another 6 combat heals prepped with at least two of them set for A.O.E.. The final six slots would typically be utility effects of some sort most likely defense buffs or primary combat skill buffs.
Nosforontu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2015, 12:26 PM   #17
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

Here is an example spell loudout from one of my characters, who notably had 24 charm and 24 alchemy slots (we used the 'alchemy has seperate slot pool) method.

5/5 Mana Burst
3/3 Mana Burst, +P
2/2 Mana Burst, Magnum
4/4 Mana Burst, Wide
2/2 Warrior Academy
2/2 Shadow Clone
2/2 Mana Armor
4/4 Healing Charms

10/10 healing potions
4/4 protection cold potions
4/4 Dragon Teeth (skeletal warrior)
4/4 Mana Burst Grenade
2/2 Healing +P Potion


Note, Mana Burst is Mana Burst, +P, Wide, Magnum etc are just different versions of it, and the grenade is just it being used as an Alchemical instead of a Charm

Mana Burst
Spell Effects: Greater Create Magic.
Inherent Modifiers: Damage, External Burning + Area Of Effect + Range + Speed.
Greater Effects: 1 (3).

Mana Burst - This releases a concentrated burst of raw mana burning anything it touches in the blast area in a brilliant blue white flash.

This Casting: Greater Create Magic (6) + Lesser Control Magic (5) + Damage, External Burning 15d (16) + Area Of Effect, 3 yards, excluding up to 2 subjects (3) + Range, 100 yds (10) + Speed, 100 yds/second (10). 150 energy (503).


Boost the amount of damage so to make it hit harder (and be harder and riskier to cast) to make +P and Magnum versions

Increase the Area Effect to make Wide versions

A 'Long' version could be had by upping range/speed. Might be good to up Area of Effect also, since by that point the character in question couldn't hit the broadside of a barn without a really big area of effect

Change Lesser Control Magic to Lesser Create Magic and drop the range/speed for the Alchemical grenade form

And so forth . . . . so this character has an assortment of attack spells ready to be thrown, which are all the same spell. Which she had ritual mastery for and a grimoire of!

Of course, a very smart enemy could be prepared to defend handily against said single spell and render it all moot
Kalzazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2015, 06:49 PM   #18
starslayer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Re: Running both Vanilla Magic and RPM?

Going to largely agree with Kal here.

You carry your grimore with you (say, in the trunk of your car in a modern game, or in your wagon if fantasy), if your a full ritual adept you can cast your buffs 'in the field' (or still in your rituals space with several week durations).

You keep a few enemy debuffs in your charm slots, and I like to keep a couple 'lesser sense life, lesser strengthen chance' hanging rituals on most of my characters for a 'save me from that lethal hit' magic; but for the most part charms are for your 'what I will do in a combat round' abilities go. Your already delivering your most substantial benefit in terms of your buffs in advance, all the PCs are (if your being friendly) already walking around with +3 to dodge, +2 to defend, +4 to to hit with a specific weapon, with a duration long enough for the endeavour at hand (heck you probably insisted on doing this in your ritual space so that they could all sacrifice in to the rituals and then get healed back up before you headed out). So that leaves healing rituals, defense rituals (IT Diffuse, and regeneration along ATR-1 and Sessill as an alternate form is useful if situational specific) and damaging rituals to finish filling out your charm slots. Unless your combats tend to be long slogs you don't need more then 6 stocked healing rituals, so the rest become damaging rituals from a depleting 'ammo' stock.

I did make one mage character who got around that problem by having a ritual that strengthened his clothes to well exceed plate, strengthened his boots to move him around the battlefield with extreme haste, and strengthened his staff to well exceed a force sword in damage- so he just carried three copies of each of those spells (and that was really in excess; just for fear of dispelling) and had all his other charms free for other stuff; which I largely turned into 'more copies of those buffing spells that almost never need to be recast' and 'more copies of enemy debuff spells'.
starslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
magic, rpm

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.