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Old 09-20-2015, 01:44 PM   #1
Koningkrush
 
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Default Actual Impaling Question

What are the rules for actual impaling? Like, how much damage does an impaling weapon need to do before it actually goes straight through the body and stops dealing damage? The same question goes for the different levels of piercing damage.

I'm assuming cutting damage has a 6x HP damage limit or something since being cut clean in half would be almost certain instant death while crushing has no limit since you would be practically exploding after a certain point of force.
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

What you're looking for is the "Overpenetration" rules. Basic Set 408. Further stuff related to weapons going through people on High Tech p 162. I'm pretty sure there's something else I'm missing - possibly in Martial Arts.
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Old 09-20-2015, 02:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

Overpenetration is on B408.
Optional rules for blowthrough no longer causing direct damage is on HT162.
Impaling (and keeping at bay) a charging foe is on MA106.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

So the rules basically say after 1xHP damage (if using bleeding rules), the weapon/projectile has gone through the body and stops inflicting injury. However, this seems small for impaling/huge piercing and overkill for small piercing. Would it be better for the threshold to be 0.5xHP for small piercing, 1xHP for piercing, 1.5xHP for large piercing, and 2xHP for huge piercing/impaling? The reasoning behind it is that something with a larger diameter should cause a much wider wound canal meaning higher potential injury. This is all for a general torso hit without vitals btw.
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Old 09-20-2015, 08:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

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Originally Posted by Koningkrush View Post
So the rules basically say after 1xHP damage (if using bleeding rules), the weapon/projectile has gone through the body and stops inflicting injury. However, this seems small for impaling/huge piercing and overkill for small piercing. Would it be better for the threshold to be 0.5xHP for small piercing, 1xHP for piercing, 1.5xHP for large piercing, and 2xHP for huge piercing/impaling? The reasoning behind it is that something with a larger diameter should cause a much wider wound canal meaning higher potential injury. This is all for a general torso hit without vitals btw.
Making the 1xHP limit a damage threshold rather than an injury threshold is something I like, yeah.
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Making the 1xHP limit a damage threshold rather than an injury threshold is something I like, yeah.
Actually, using the Overpenetration rules on B408 that is how it reads. Penetration happens if basic damage exceeds the threshold (meaning not modified for wounding)... so yeah, I see no reason why that shouldn't apply to the HT162 section as well.

EDIT: Quite frankly I don't see why they didn't have rules for getting thrust/imp weapons stuck in your opponent standard (making it a specific damage threshold instead of just the way the section on Picks reads) since with high enough ST it's possible to do as much damage with a thr/imp weapon as a ST 10 person could do with a sw/imp one...

Last edited by Barghaest; 09-20-2015 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 09-20-2015, 11:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

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Originally Posted by Barghaest View Post
EDIT: Quite frankly I don't see why they didn't have rules for getting thrust/imp weapons stuck in your opponent standard (making it a specific damage threshold instead of just the way the section on Picks reads) since with high enough ST it's possible to do as much damage with a thr/imp weapon as a ST 10 person could do with a sw/imp one...
Its about angles and how you apply force. swinging a pick forward is much more efficient than pulling it backwards. More to the point, when you pull back on the handle, the pick doesn't come strait back, it curves, digging into the skin and generally getting stuck. This is because the force being pulled back is a handle to the side of the injury. A spear or sword is pulled back directly behind the injury, so they come out just fine.
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Old 09-20-2015, 11:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

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Originally Posted by Barghaest View Post
Actually, using the Overpenetration rules on B408 that is how it reads. Penetration happens if basic damage exceeds the threshold (meaning not modified for wounding)... so yeah, I see no reason why that shouldn't apply to the HT162 section as well.
Those are completely different things. Overpenetration is about how much the target's body does to stop your attack from hitting something behind them. That is about damage by definition, because damage is penetration. And mechanically it doesn't have any relevance to the rules on HT162.
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Old 09-21-2015, 12:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Its about angles and how you apply force. swinging a pick forward is much more efficient than pulling it backwards. More to the point, when you pull back on the handle, the pick doesn't come strait back, it curves, digging into the skin and generally getting stuck. This is because the force being pulled back is a handle to the side of the injury. A spear or sword is pulled back directly behind the injury, so they come out just fine.
"Just fine" is a relative term. Depending on how deeply an object impales a person it doesn't always easily slide out (apart from pulling a bit harder, most people won't give a damn but their victims surely notice - so this is more a situation when you CARE about the person in whom the object is stuck) especially when mass/muscle/bone might apply force to the flat of the blade instead of the edge.

Now I won't argue that pulling a sword free is easier than pulling a pick free because of the angle of applied force, that I understand. But if you thrust through someone with a vertical blade and they twist laterally it will impede removing it (same if you have the blade horizontal and they shift vertically - such as collapsing because the thrust has incapacitated them).
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Old 09-21-2015, 04:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: Actual Impaling Question

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Its about angles and how you apply force. swinging a pick forward is much more efficient than pulling it backwards. More to the point, when you pull back on the handle, the pick doesn't come strait back, it curves, digging into the skin and generally getting stuck. This is because the force being pulled back is a handle to the side of the injury. A spear or sword is pulled back directly behind the injury, so they come out just fine.
Assuming you and your target remain exactly face to face with each other, and the Thrust was exactly straight as well.

If you thrust a spear into someone in combat it's just as likely they'll move or you'll move removing the straight line ease of removal.

I'd make it a factor of damage rolled, the thing is since Sw Imp is likely to be more than Thr Imp anyway you'll still have a harder time removing a Sw Imp weapons as a Thr Imp. You just won't have the current situation where if just catch you for 1 point of daamge with a Sw Imp weapon, I get it stuck but can impale you with spear for 10 points of damage and not risk getting stuck

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-21-2015 at 05:48 AM.
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