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Old 07-02-2015, 03:30 PM   #11
Captain Joy
 
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Default Re: Mitigating Disadvantages w/o Self Control Number

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Originally Posted by Eukie View Post
Self-control rolls are against 6, 9, 12, and 15. We can extend this sequence to cover the range 0-3-6-9-12-15-18-21 with each step costing 50% of the base cost. Hence, rolling against a self-control number of 18 is worth 0 points, while the guaranteed failure of rolling less than 0 is worth x3 the usual cost.

If a disadvantage applies all the time, you might then assume that it has a self-control number of 0, and an effective triple cost. If it gave 30 points, giving it a self-control number of 12 would reduce it's value to 10 points.
I get want you're saying, but since a 3, 4, 17, and 18 are automatics or criticals, maybe the effective sequence is closer to never-6-9-12-15-always.

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
GURPS Zombies adds a "Constantly" level to self control, which gives you the baseline point cost for an always-on mental disad that you can then back-form the price for a 12-minus Self Control version to apply Self Control modifiers to normally. Spoiler: it'll end up pretty cheap compared to the always-on version, potentially approaching the quirk but with more complicated mechanics.
Disadvantages With A Self-Control Number
  • You resist never (N/A – 0% of the time): 2.5 x listed cost. (GURPS Zombies, p. 60)
  • You resist quite rarely (roll of 6 or less – 9.3% of the time): 2 x listed cost. (B121)
  • You resist fairly often (roll of 9 or less – 37.5% of the time): 1.5 x listed cost. (B121)
  • You resist quite often (roll of 12 or less – 74.1% of the time): 1 x listed cost. (B121)
  • You resist almost all the time (roll of 15 or less – 95.4% of the time): 0.5 x listed cost. (B121)
  • You resist always (100% of the time): 0 cost. (obviously)

So Zombies added the 2.5 x cost mechanic to Disadvantages in order to make resistible mental Disadvantages not resistible. Why not apply the same metric to not resistible mental Disadvantages to give them a Self-Control number? Seriously, I'm asking; if this is not a good idea, let me know why.

Disadvantages Without A Self-Control Number
  • You resist never (N/A – 0% of the time): 1 x listed cost.
  • You resist quite rarely (roll of 6 or less – 9.3% of the time): 0.8 x listed cost.
  • You resist fairly often (roll of 9 or less – 37.5% of the time): 0.6 x listed cost.
  • You resist quite often (roll of 12 or less – 74.1% of the time): 0.4 x listed cost.
  • You resist almost all the time (roll of 15 or less – 95.4% of the time): 0.2 x listed cost.
  • You resist always (100% of the time): 0 cost. (common sense)

Last edited by Captain Joy; 07-02-2015 at 04:25 PM. Reason: added link, spelling, fixed roll numbers, added %'s
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:45 PM   #12
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Mitigating Disadvantages w/o Self Control Number

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
Seriously, I'm asking; if this is not a good idea, let me know why.

Disadvantages Without A Self-Control Number
  • You resist never (N/A): 1 x listed cost.
  • You resist quite rarely (roll of 6 or less): 0.8 x listed cost.
  • You resist fairly often (roll of 6 or less): 0.6 x listed cost.
  • You resist quite often (roll of 6 or less): 0.4 x listed cost.
  • You resist almost all the time (roll of 6 or less): 0.2 x listed cost.
  • You resist always: 0 cost. (common sense)
Well, you didn't copy the right numbers in for the rolls. That part isn't a good idea.

Other than that? Interesting.

I'd tend to suspect that the 2.5x might be under-valuing due to its context, and thus reversing it would over-value. But I don't have any particular case for that.
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Old 07-02-2015, 05:27 PM   #13
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Mitigating Disadvantages w/o Self Control Number

My logic has always been a target number of 15 is equivalent to the maximum allowed limitation -80%, so 20% of the original value, so the base cost (for 12) must be 40% of the original value.

Essentially the same thing. Divide the cost of the always on disadvantage by your favorite number on the interval [2,3] and apply the self control cost modifier to that.

I'm at 2.5 rather than 3 in some of the proposals at least in part because a self imposed disadvantage that is on "all the time" is not quite the same thing as a Self Control number of impossible, because you retain the option of resisting if you are willing to suffer sufficiently serious consequences (e.g. you can break the law if you have Honest, but then must turn yourself in and freely confess....) If you had a Self Control number of 0, you couldn't consider that option.
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Last edited by malloyd; 07-02-2015 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:07 AM   #14
Eukie
 
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Default Re: Mitigating Disadvantages w/o Self Control Number

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
I get want you're saying, but since a 3, 4, 17, and 18 are automatics or criticals, maybe the effective sequence is closer to never-6-9-12-15-always.
There's a slight difference between 3 and always and 18 and never. Several situations impose penalties or bonuses to self-control rolls, so having the Disadvantage have actual numbers can be useful for those situations.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:25 AM   #15
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Mitigating Disadvantages w/o Self Control Number

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
So Zombies added the 2.5 x cost mechanic to Disadvantages in order to make resistible mental Disadvantages not resistible. Why not apply the same metric to not resistible mental Disadvantages to give them a Self-Control number? Seriously, I'm asking; if this is not a good idea, let me know why.
It seems like a perfectly cromulent idea, and I don't see why not. I'd put the usual caveat of "as long as the GM thinks it makes sense", but that's the unwritten asterix on just about everything.
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