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Old 11-23-2014, 05:44 PM   #1
Buzzardo
 
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Default Ogre Meta-game?

In the BatG thread, various folks have mentioned the idea of games that lead into other games. I think of that as meta-gaming* around the regular game.

A game of Ogre represents a situation that lasts no more than an hour. A game turn is four minutes long, and it's a rare (very rare, in my experience) game that goes fifteen turns. That's why units are assumed to have enough ammo, and no one needs to stop to eat, drink, pee, or sleep.

I wouldn't try to add those things to Ogre. Rather, I'd create a meta-game for the doings between games. Another way to look at it is as a separate game, where the smaller actions are played out as games of Ogre.

So, what would that larger game have to have?

* With a definite nod to the game label under which Ogre was first published. :)
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to create a new game for publication. It's just an idea for us grognards to kick around between actual games of Ogre. :)
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

Beyond the obvious points you've mentioned, my addition would be some way of rotating infantry out of battle, out of their powered suits, and getting them a hot shower before they have to re-suit and go back in the line.

Perhaps some form of mobile structure similar to the MCP wherein one could have racks for the suits, and trained personnel to help un-suit the men, meals, and a decontamination area for residual radiation from all those nukes they use. Definitely back-game stuff, but needed for morale. I've often wondered at the fan fiction where a man is in the suit for a week at a time, I can't imagine that would be in any way pleasant.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

You know, I actually kicked around a few ideas for a campaign engine. This brings it back. The game was played as a sort of role-playing/campaign game in turns worth a week each. It was my tongue-in-cheek take on the silliness of an RPG in a nuclear war, played for laughs. You start at the beginning of the war.

Since there's no way anyone is going to survive 52 combats a year for the 40 years of the Last War (not with OGREs CRT!!!), the point wasn't to "level up" like other RPGs, but to _avoid_ combat long enough to collect fake passports and cash so you can retire in comfort somewhere in the south pacific. Instead of "hit points" (nukes, what's the point?), it tracked gametes, which start at 100,000,000 but only ever go down...

As my very incomplete write up put it:

Quote:
Take two guys:

"Yeah, by Turn #307 my character was a Combine 87th Level 'OGRE-Buster' Five-Star General who commands his own Army Corps and found a +5 Plasma Rifle in a secret government research center. He's captured his own auto-factory and is going to start building a moon-base."

Or: "Yeah, my character high-tailed it out of the Army as a lowly 1st-Loey and is currently drinking cocktails on a beach in some remote Pacific Island with two-and-a-half million embezzled dollars. Oh, and unlike that other guy, he's not sterile."

So, who "won"? :)
You also score bragging rights based on your number of surviving children and on whether or not you managed to seduce the General's daughter (or son, depending on your character's gender and/or preferences...).
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzardo View Post
In the BatG thread, various folks have mentioned the idea of games that lead into other games. I think of that as meta-gaming* around the regular game...
I thought that discussion was more about interlinked scenarios, where the result of one can affect the next, etc via options like surviving unit carry over.

The idea of a campaign/strategic level game with supply rules, meatware experience and progression seems to be more GURPS Ogre territory. I don't own that, so can't say how well it does, but that would seem a useful starting point for anyone looking to meta-game.

As an aside, it would seem good commercial sense for SJG to encourage Ogre players to take a closer look at GURPS - say with a special offer on a PDF collection including GURPS Ogre, the basic rules and any relevant supplements like Ultra Hi-Tech.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

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Originally Posted by AstralWanderer View Post
I thought that discussion was more about interlinked scenarios, where the result of one can affect the next, etc via options like surviving unit carry over.
To me, that's a meta-game. What are the rules for how to adjust forces based on which units survive?

We could also talk about rules for whether and how to rest troops between the fights and so on.

In other words, there are different kinds of meta-game. Some may be mutually exclusive. Some might work well together.

I just want to kick the tires on a game beyond the individual scenarios, however it may work.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

A simple framework for linking scenarios in a campaign like setting would be as below. Note that all the numbers are adjustable depending on the campaign, and that I pretty much pulled them out of thin air but the feel like a good starting point as long as the pool size is at least 3-4x the typical scenario size (give than very few units tend to survive most GEV map scenarios).

Before the campaign begins, each side has a base pool X AU of armor and Y squads of INF available (exact units don't matter, it's a generic pool). The scenario calls for N AU and M squads of INF, which come out of that pool. After the scenario is over, all surviving units (including escapees towards friendly lines per the scenario) go back into the pool either as generic AU/squads (simplest) or as the unit types they were (takes a little record keeping). This is your base pool available for the next scenario.

After each scenario, you might get reinforcements into your pool depending on how you've been doing. Roll 1 die, adding 1 for each level of victory above draw or subtracting 1 for each level of defeat below draw from the previous scenario. Use the following table to see what your pool gets:
  • 0 or less: LOSE 10% of your starting pool (they need units elsewhere more than you do!)
  • 1-3: You get no reinforcements at this time.
  • 4-5: Gain 10% of your starting pool.
  • 6 or more: Gain 20% of your starting pool.
If you ever find yourself in a position where you don't have enough in your pool to fully populate a scenario, tough luck (you can trade 1 AU for 3 INF or vice versa if your pool has enough, but only to fill missing units or as the scenario dictates). Additionally, your total pool can never go above 125% of your base pool, or 20% more than the total AU+INF required by the biggest scenario in the campaign, whichever is bigger.

I don't think that there needs to be an exact formula to cover every single situation, just an agreed upon set of numbers before the campaign begins. You could also add in extras like random events that might give extra reinforcements (or take them away), along with checks to see if surviving units break down (physically or mentally) after battles, but that might be more complicated than it's worth.

This system doesn't take into account any sort of unit experience, as that requires a lot more record keeping than I think most Ogre players want, but you could easily add something like that if you wanted to (assuming you tracked actual units, and not just generic AU). I'll leave the ideas about that to someone else :)
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

I have done a basic campaign rule set detailing a battle over a (formerly) quiet piece of the front.
you get one larger ogre or two smaller ones, a load of buildings and a load of toys waiting to get broken ;-)

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Old 11-24-2014, 08:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

I'm currently working on an article that covers some of this and uses the idea of commands. So the Pan Euro have a Division consisting of X, and the Combine a Brigade Combat team consisting of Y. So as suggested before one takes units from the command and assign them to the scenario and rotate back survivors at the end of each game, which actually makes for a different style of game play, because you need survivors.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: Ogre Meta-game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FJCestero View Post
Or: "Yeah, my character high-tailed it out of the Army as a lowly 1st-Loey and is currently drinking cocktails on a beach in some remote Pacific Island with two-and-a-half million embezzled dollars. Oh, and unlike that other guy, he's not sterile."
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