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Old 08-11-2014, 12:55 PM   #1
Bubbles21112
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Atomic Transmutation

Before Charity phase on your turn you may discard one Door from your and and draw a face down Treasure, or vice versa.


So here is my question. I know there have been threads before but going back over a year in threads I've not found it.

How I see this. After your fight a monster from kicking in the door, loot the room, or look for trouble you can preform this ability then give cards.

A friend played last night and read it as...it can be done anytime on your turn and as often as you want because there is nothing saying how many times you can do it and no time from like only before Charity.


Either this card should be re-written or it's what my friend is saying, and I REALLY hope it's not. :)
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:11 PM   #2
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

It says, specifically, ONE Door or ONE Treasure. There's nothing saying you can use the ability more than once, therefore you can't. (Munchkin metarule: if it's not explicitly permitted, assume it's not allowed.)

The wording "Before the Charity phase" does not mean "at any time before Charity," it means specifically "right before the Charity phase."
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #3
Bubbles21112
 
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

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Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
It says, specifically, ONE Door or ONE Treasure. There's nothing saying you can use the ability more than once, therefore you can't. (Munchkin metarule: if it's not explicitly permitted, assume it's not allowed.)

The wording "Before the Charity phase" does not mean "at any time before Charity," it means specifically "right before the Charity phase."

Right but like other cards The thief for example..it says once per turn you may discard one card. This doesn't have the "once per turn" criteria hence the "as many times as I want" argument.

Also it only says before Charity, So people are taking it to mean any time on your turn...

I get the rule, but my friend reads it different and googling this a lot of people on other sites are reading it the way my friend is as well. :(
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:10 PM   #4
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

Tell your friend I gave the official answer: once per turn, right before Charity.
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:23 PM   #5
MunchkinMan
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

Yes, but if Andrew, Devin, or myself say it, it really doesn't matter if the online consensus is different. It's our responsibility to hand out official rulings for Munchkin.

As for other interpretations: By giving a very specific timing, it's clear that it does not mean at any time during your turn prior to Charity, but just before. And, by specifically saying one card, and not a card, it indicates that you can do this for only one card. To do what your friend implies, the wording would have to be something like, "During your turn, before Charity, you can discard a Door from your hand and draw a face-down Treasure, or vice versa. You can do this as often as you like." Adding to the argument against this other interpretation, it is way too powerful.

Again, the wording supports the interpretation Andrew and I have presented. There are plenty of other cases where you'll find that a once-per-turn restriction exists but hasn't been explicitly stated in a separate sentence.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:36 PM   #6
Bubbles21112
 
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

I get that you've made an official ruling, but to be fair not everyone comes here to look. I found this site by accident.

Now on to what you are saying. There are race/class/style and so on cards that have those words writtne on them. As in ONCE PER TURN, or BEFORE KICKING IN THE DOOR. Those cards DO give a time and how often where as the Scientist does not.

That's why the debate.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:27 PM   #7
Mister Ed
 
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

If I'm understanding correctly, you are fine with the ruling, and the official-ness of it, but are thinking that perhaps the wording on the card could use some revision to make the intention more clear?
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:22 PM   #8
Bubbles21112
 
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Default Re: Atomic Transmutation

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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
If I'm understanding correctly, you are fine with the ruling, and the official-ness of it, but are thinking that perhaps the wording on the card could use some revision to make the intention more clear?

Yes.

I've found a great number of the cards are worded very well.

From time to time we come across some that...well..leave a lot open to interpratation.
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