Fantasy Race Coexistence and Integration

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

Then half-elf + half-elf would result in human offspring, not half-elf.

I did say, "kind of" not, "exactly". It's deceptively more realistic than most D&D biology, after all.

[Blue Ghost]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

Then half-elf + half-elf would result in human offspring, not half-elf.

Why not full elf?

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Randyman

IMD&DC, Orcs occupy that niche more explicitly than Humans. Orcs are interfertile with any primate (see "Losel"), which helps to account for much of the opprobrium Orcs generate among other sapient species.

Sometimes a daddy orc and a mommy baboon love each other very much...

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Blue Ghost

Why not full elf?

Tradition/fictional examples, and how one tends to assume that Elven genes are recessive or at least less likely to assert themselves over human genes. Elves generally come across as "better" humans, so it makes a certain deal of sense that their traits are thinned out to the point of essentially ceasing over time, though you are certainly free to do it otherwise (and in some settings, that will even be quite logical).

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Tradition/fictional examples, and how one tends to assume that Elven genes are recessive or at least less likely to assert themselves over human genes. Elves generally come across as "better" humans, so it makes a certain deal of sense that their traits are thinned out to the point of essentially ceasing over time, though you are certainly free to do it otherwise (and in some settings, that will even be quite logical).

This may have its modern roots in JRRT, too. Tolkien was a bit uncertain about the exact details of the status of Elf/Human crossbreeds, he seems to have concluded that the 'default' of such births was mortality (i.e. any human ancestry makes you human). The descendents of the Beren/Luthien and Tuor/Idril matings were a special case, with some unsettled issues.

[simply Nathan]

Me, I lump the races naturally present to my setting into four groups:

Dragons (all the reptilian races) can breed with other dragons, but not with fairies or goblins.

Fairies (elves, pixies, several varieties of sith and youkai, etc.) are defined as any race with some combination of unmodified Magery 0+, Energy Reserve (Magic), and Dependency (Mana) on his racial template and can interbreed with any other fairy, but not with dragons or goblins.

Goblins are mostly non-scaled hairless things and mostly cover the traditional "just kill it" beings of RPG tradition like trolls, hobgoblins, gargoyles, and ogres. Goblins can breed with other goblins, but not with dragons or fairies.

Mundanes (humans, dwarves, pygmies, giants, furries, centaurs, minotaurs, and so on). They can breed with other mundanes AND with the other three groups, producing viable offspring.


One method of producing a character's racial template is to pick a template for each of his parents and roll randomly to see what he inherits, which can include the Mundane's cross-group compatibility feature.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Randyman

One published example of this is an earlier edition of D&D (3.x, I think). There, Elf/Human crossbreeds are, of course, Half-Elves. Half-Elf/Human crossbreeds are indistinguishable from other Humans, Elf/Half-Elf crossbreeds are indistinguishable from other Half-Elves, and Half-Elves breed true.

IMD&DC, Orcs occupy that niche more explicitly than Humans. Orcs are interfertile with any primate (see "Losel"), which helps to account for much of the opprobrium Orcs generate among other sapient species.

Another good example is from the Shadowrun/Earthdawn world.

In that world, Earth periodically is swept by waves of mana, lasting thousands of years. During those periods, magic works. Then the mana recedes, and the magic goes away...for a while. Each up and down cycle takes thousands of years, but it's happened many, many times down the ages, far back into prehistory.

When the mana wave first arrives and rises above a certain critical point, genetic traits that are dormant in the down phase manifest, and some humans suddenly display metamorphic changes, becoming orcs and trolls, and this breeds true. Some other humans begin giving birth to what amount to elves and dwarves, who then breed true. The whole range of legendary humanoids appear, and the ironic thing is that they were present all along, in the human race latently, and the people themselves never knew it.

Dragons emerge from hibernation as the mana rises, and the other traits of magic appear. Animals display transformations under the influence of mana as well, as various latent, mana-sensitive genes activate.

All the humanoids are in fact variations on the basic human theme, all are cross-fertile, (though the results of hybridization can be varied) and the flip side also applies. Thousands of years later, the receding mana wava becomes weak enough to it can no longer stimulate those latent genes, and when that point comes, in one generation all the different races vanish, as elves, dwarves, orcs, trolls, etc all suddenly give birth to nothing but baseline Homo sapiens. The other races vanish into memory, then legend, until thousands of years later when the next mana wave arrives.

(In the Shadowrun setting a mana wave reaches critical level in the early 21C. The last one finally ended in the early Bronze Age, IIRC.)

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Another good example is from the Shadowrun/Earthdawn world.

In that world, Earth periodically is swept by waves of mana, lasting thousands of years. During those periods, magic works. Then the mana recedes, and the magic goes away...for a while. Each up and down cycle takes thousands of years, but it's happened many, many times down the ages, far back into prehistory.

When the mana wave first arrives and rises above a certain critical point, genetic traits that are dormant in the down phase manifest, and some humans suddenly display metamorphic changes, becoming orcs and trolls, and this breeds true. Some other humans begin giving birth to what amount to elves and dwarves, who then breed true. The whole range of legendary humanoids appear, and the ironic thing is that they were present all along, in the human race latently, and the people themselves never knew it.

Dragons emerge from hibernation as the mana rises, and the other traits of magic appear. Animals display transformations under the influence of mana as well, as various latent, mana-sensitive genes activate.

All the humanoids are in fact variations on the basic human theme, all are cross-fertile, (though the results of hybridization can be varied) and the flip side also applies. Thousands of years later, the receding mana wava becomes weak enough to it can no longer stimulate those latent genes, and when that point comes, in one generation all the different races vanish, as elves, dwarves, orcs, trolls, etc all suddenly give birth to nothing but baseline Homo sapiens. The other races vanish into memory, then legend, until thousands of years later when the next mana wave arrives.

(In the Shadowrun setting a mana wave reaches critical level in the early 21C. The last one finally ended in the early Bronze Age, IIRC.)

Uh-uh. The fifth age began prior to the end of the ice age, after the mana level dropped low enough to prevent expression.

Also, there are the Immortal Elves(elves who were so powerful they were able to survive the ending of magic, and survived through the ages. One of them, Harlequin, has been connected to Da Vinci and was possibly Da Vinci. And Spike Babies, who can be born when localized mana levels are high.

Interestingly enough, Dwarve and Elves require much less mana to express, this is why Elves and Dorfs were the first metahumans to come back. This also suggests that elves and dwarves would be the last species to bred true when mana levels dropped. Orks and Trolls requrie higher mana to trigger their changes.

You're not exactly wrong, but I'm pretty sure the canon put the fourth age much further back than the bronze age.

Oh, and Verjigorm? Verjigorm if the First Horror, quite possibly the first sentient being. And Verjigorm created things to play with, that it hunted and killed for sport. To challenge itself, it created one thing that was physically powerful and strong, incredibly intelligent, and magically powerful. The first dragon ran, and ran so well that it escaped Verjigorm for a while. And Verjigorm forgot about it, and continued playing. Then one day, thousands of those dragons returned and attacked Verjigorm. IT was a hard battle, and the Great Hunter was forced to flee and hide itself away.

Ever since then, Verjigorm has plotted, and when capable he ensnares and cacoons dragons. Most of the sentients don't even know about Verjigorm: He is the legendary terror of dragons.

Edit: A quick google showed that I WAS WRONG. The fifth age started when Thera(Atlantis) sunk in 3113 B.C., and began in 8238 B.C.