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Old 02-28-2014, 04:27 PM   #31
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: GURPS M:tA

Incidentally, I found that it helped a lot to write up rotes that really specified the ritual elements of the specific rote you were doing when I was playing GURPS M:tA. I thought their official rote collection really fell short in that it left out what the magician was actually doing. A Verbena flight rote is much more interesting when you include the part where you strip naked and rub the fat from a goose or a swan over your body.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:04 PM   #32
dataweaver
 
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Default Re: GURPS M:tA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwin View Post
'Magic' in Mage the Ascension was less about 'magic' as used by Merlin, and more about exerting your will on the reality around you like a minor deity.
On the contrary: “Magic” in MtA is very much about “magic” as used by Merlin. It’s also about the stars of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, faith healers, tantric muses, shamans, the witches in MacBeth*, chaos magicians, mad scientists, druids, hackers, cyborgs, men in black, genetic engineers, financial wizards, space marines, and a bunch of others. And it’s about exerting your will on the world around you like a minor deity, once you reach the later stages of the game; but we need little in the way of help in implementing that last one.

As Mr_Sandman said, the key issue here isn’t about how to replicate the capabilities of the MtA magic system; that’s nicely handled by Realm Magic. It’s about how to make the paradigms more meaningful. Tossing them out entirely is exactly the opposite of what we’re trying to do here.

* Note to lugaid: that’s a place to go for Euthanatos inspiration. The concept of the witch is actually split between the Verbena (who emphasize the fertility treatments and home remedies side of things) and the Euthanaoi (who deal in determining peoples’ Fates and placing curses or geases on them).
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Incidentally, I found that it helped a lot to write up rotes that really specified the ritual elements of the specific rote you were doing when I was playing GURPS M:tA. I thought their official rote collection really fell short in that it left out what the magician was actually doing. A Verbena flight rote is much more interesting when you include the part where you strip naked and rub the fat from a goose or a swan over your body
Or, you know, grabbing a broom and straddling it.

It’s also worth noting that GURPS Mage: the Ascension was based on the first edition of the game, which was rendered obsolete within a year of its publication. So yes, the official rote collection (among many other things) really fell short.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: GURPS M:tA

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
On the contrary: “Magic” in MtA is very much about “magic” as used by Merlin. It’s also about the stars of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, faith healers, tantric muses, shamans, the witches in MacBeth*, chaos magicians, mad scientists, druids, hackers, cyborgs, men in black, genetic engineers, financial wizards, space marines, and a bunch of others. And it’s about exerting your will on the world around you like a minor deity, once you reach the later stages of the game; but we need little in the way of help in implementing that last one.

As Mr_Sandman said, the key issue here isn’t about how to replicate the capabilities of the MtA magic system; that’s nicely handled by Realm Magic. It’s about how to make the paradigms more meaningful. Tossing them out entirely is exactly the opposite of what we’re trying to do here.
Yes! That is much more what I was thinking. Thank you for presenting it in a much more clear fashion than I did. I'd only add that, for myself anyway, I wasn't necessarily looking for specific mechanics (I can do that on my own), but rather for an understanding of the more difficult elements in the MtA "bestiary" (as it were). That people are, of course (and rightly), going to be interested in working up the mechanical approach too is something that I really should have foreseen and taken into consideration when formulating the initial post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
* Note to lugaid: that’s a place to go for Euthanatos inspiration. The concept of the witch is actually split between the Verbena (who emphasize the fertility treatments and home remedies side of things) and the Euthanaoi (who deal in determining peoples’ Fates and placing curses or geases on them).
Very nice. That does give me a different way to look at this, which might be quite fruitful.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: GURPS M:tA

In terms of my proposed mechanics: I’d have all of the Traditions share the same set of Realms, for the most part: Correspondence, Fate, Forces, Life, Matter, Mind, Prime, Spirit, and Time. I’d allow some customization to this: for instance, many Virtual Adepts replace Correspondence with Data (a Correspondence variant described in the recent NWO Convention Book); most Euthanatoi practice Entropy instead of Fate (the former having more of a focus on destructive phenomena than the latter); Etherites often practice Machines instead of Matter (the former being a variant of the latter focusing more on intricate systems than on the properties of substances, and incorporating the ability to create Wonders); and so on.

Likewise with the Technocracy: the same nine Realms, with individual Conventions often favoring variants of one or two Realms that are more closely aligned with their perspectives. Conversely, there should be Disparate factions with Realm sets that have little in common with the Traditions’ Realms. For instance, I could see the Sisters of Hypollyta using Season-themed Realms instead of the default nine: anything that doesn’t fit into one or another of their Realms either involves Conjunctional use of several or simply isn’t available to them.
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Last edited by dataweaver; 02-28-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: GURPS M:tA

An excerpt from the upcoming 20th Anniversary Edition of Mage, posted to its Facebook page by the author:
Chaos Magick

It’s not what you think it is. Although the term “chaos magic” tends to be associated with demons and evil (thanks, Michael Moorcock!), occultists understand chaos magick as a postmodern and often improvisational Art. Like other mystic practices, it emphasizes knowledge, reflection, and other forms of self-improvement. This revolutionary inversion of traditional mystic disciplines, however, depends upon personal intuition and interpretation; individual freedom; a deliberately iconoclastic approach; and an often subversive use of pop-culture symbols, social behaviors and improvised designs.

Chaos magick spits in the face of established dogma. Often regarded by outsiders as a Left-Hand Path, it’s a sex, drugs and rock-n-roll sort of practice, raising and directing personal energy (that is, Quintessence) through extreme experiences. Obviously, this sort of thing appeals to Cultists of Ecstasy, whose more formal practices – Tantra, visonquesting, ordeals and crazy wisdom (see below) – have been integrated into the chaos-magick potpourri. Even that diverse cult-ture, however, is too confining for many chaos practitioners, whose embrace of the Chaosphere – the whirling fractal of absolute existence – resists confinement in any form.

Playful yet serious, each chaos-magick practice draws from the individual practitioner’s experiences and desires. Some folks use toys and Tarot cards, while others craft graphic novels, run raves, stage flash mobs, and concoct elaborate pranks on society at large. Eris, Bob, the Flying Spaghetti Monster… these deities supplant the classic divinities in a chaotic pantheon whose figureheads are less concerned with worship than with inversion. Each mage, then, is a vortex of potential whose Will spins energy into being. And if this sounds too abstract to be useful, then you’re thinking about it too hard.

Associated Abilities: Art, Awareness, Carousing, Computer, Esoterica, Expression, Lucid Dreaming, Meditation, Pharmacopeia, Streetwise, Technology

Common Instruments: Whatever works, so long as none of it becomes too stable or confining.
I’m posting this here because it gives insight into the magic wielded by the Cult of Ecstasy. The Cultists are, in essence, Chaos Magicians as described above — or, at least, many of them are.

Another spoiler from the Kickstarter comments: The Euthanatoi have decided to go back to the name they used in the earliest days of their Tradition: the Chakravanti. With this, the Tradition is focusing more on its role as the purveyors and agents of Fate than on the “magical assassins” reputation they’ve garnered over the centuries.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:16 AM   #36
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Those are likely to be helpful. Thank you.
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