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Old 06-25-2013, 05:04 AM   #11
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining

kotya, the specific question about "choosing" Hoard! is when you're using the Bardic Luck ability -- in that case, it's possible that Hoard! would never technically be drawn as Treasure, going straight from the deck to the discard pile without activating.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining

Yes, I've made the same mistake in the past by misreading that FAQ entry myself.

As for why you have the separate stack of discards, that's because all such card effects have been ruled to be handled that way on the forums. If you take Cleric literally, then you could draw cards from the discards and then discard the cards you just drew as payment, but that is not allowed as the cards are not yet deemed to have entered your hand until the card resolves either, in the same way that the cards you discard don't enter the discard pile until the card resolves.

The only card I am aware of that breaks this trend and doesn't use the effective limbo area for cards you draw and discard is the Duck of Many Things, and that's because it very specifically declares that each action of the card is to resolve in order.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper View Post
Yes, I've made the same mistake in the past by misreading that FAQ entry myself.
Actually, I wouldn't call it "misreading". It's written that if I need to choose between the cards, I couldn't play Hoard! until I choose it. If I draw treasure for me and my helper, I need to choose which cards I want to keep and which ones go to the helper. So it conforms to this entry and would be applied there. In FAQ itself, It is not mentioned that this entry is related to Bardic Luck only (thanks Andrew - now I've got it), so I think the FAQ needs to be updated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper View Post
As for why you have the separate stack of discards, that's because all such card effects have been ruled to be handled that way on the forums. If you take Cleric literally, then you could draw cards from the discards and then discard the cards you just drew as payment, but that is not allowed as the cards are not yet deemed to have entered your hand until the card resolves either, in the same way that the cards you discard don't enter the discard pile until the card resolves.
That's right. I wanted to emphasize that in the steps you've provided, the "draws cards" step should go first, then "discards as payment" step.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotya View Post
Actually, I wouldn't call it "misreading". It's written that if I need to choose between the cards, I couldn't play Hoard! until I choose it. If I draw treasure for me and my helper, I need to choose which cards I want to keep and which ones go to the helper. So it conforms to this entry and would be applied there. In FAQ itself, It is not mentioned that this entry is related to Bardic Luck only (thanks Andrew - now I've got it), so I think the FAQ needs to be updated.
Except, you're not "choosing" which cards get to be kept as part of the Treasure draw when you're choosing which cards you will take and which cards your helper will take, so, no, it doesn't apply to that situation.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining

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Originally Posted by kotya View Post
That's right. I wanted to emphasize that in the steps you've provided, the "draws cards" step should go first, then "discards as payment" step.
The order doesn't seem to matter in this case, so I switched it to describe things more clearly. It also stops you from resurrecting more cards than you have cards in your hand, which is important. Note that they aren't actually discarded until the end of the Resurrection action, I just set them aside first, so the order is actually preserved in the end too.
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