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Old 04-01-2013, 03:09 AM   #71
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post

(Chances listed for each roll is the chance of success. Also corrected for using the wrong knockdown-failure-KO target, which I had accidentally set one too high)
Chance to be unable to act next turn:
Leg: 6-point injury. Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT, with failure resulting in stun (50%).
Neck: 16-point injury. Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT, with failure resulting in stun (50%). Before their next turn, they have to make a HT roll to stay conscious (50%) if they wish to act. This leaves a (50% * 50% = ) 25% success rate, or a chance of being unable to act next turn of 75%.
Face: 12-point injury. Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT-5, with failure resulting in stun (4.6%). Before their next turn, they have to make a HT roll to stay conscious (50%) if they wish to act. This leaves a (4.6% * 50% = ) 2.3% success rate, or a chance of being unable to act next turn of 97.7%.
Brain: 24-point injury. Death check required (50%). Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT-10, with failure resulting in stun (1.9%). Before their next turn, they have to make a HT roll, at -1 due to being below -1 * HT to stay conscious (37.5%) if they wish to act. This leaves a (50% * 1.9% * 37.5% = ) 0.35% success rate, or a chance of being unable to act next turn of 99.65%. (For some reason, I had inverted and rounded the wrong way to get 99.3% instead)

Chance to be rendered unconscious or dead:
Leg: Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT; failure by 5 results in unconsciousness. Effective target is HT+5 (95.4%), resulting in a failure rate of 4.6%.
Neck: Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT; failure by 5 results in unconsciousness. Effective target is HT+5 (95.4%). Remaining conscious into the next turn requires a HT roll (50%). Chance to succeed is (95.4% * 50% = ) 47.7%, resulting in a failure rate of 52.3%.
Face: Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT-5; failure by 5 results in unconsciousness. Effective target is HT (50%). Remaining conscious into the next turn requires a HT roll (50%). Chance to succeed is (50% * 50% = ) 25%, resulting in a failure rate of 75%.
Brain: Death check required (50%). Major wound forces a knockdown roll against HT-10; failure by 5 results in unconsciousness. Effective target is HT-5 (4.6%). Remaining conscious into the next turn requires a HT roll, at -1 for being below -1 * HT (37.5%). Chance to succeed is (50% * 4.6% * 37.5% = ) 0.86%, resulting in a failure rate of 99.14% (Which I rounded to ~99%).

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Cheers for the maths, sorry for the late reply! And that all fine for limbs vs. neck/face/skull. What about torso though (i.e a default non targeted attack). I admit this part of the thread did come from me comparing necks to double leg amputation (which when added in makes it equal to the neck with it a major wound* and -hp?) but the actual thread was started about neck (and face) wounds vs general wounds.

8pt cutting to the torso is 12 points which is in -HP and a major wound and both criteria above seems to the same as the neck?

*actually I guess that counts as 2x major wounds with 2x HT rolls to avoid knock-down, but do you need to make two HT rolls to remove stun if you fail both Knock-down rolls?

Last edited by Tomsdad; 04-01-2013 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:16 PM   #72
Phoenix_Dragon
 
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Default Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Cheers for the maths, sorry for the late reply! And that all fine for limbs vs. neck/face/skull. What about torso though (i.e a default non targeted attack).
For an 8-point cutting attack, it'd be about the same as the neck, except for significantly lower lethality, doing both 3/4 the damage (12 points) and having much less dangerous bleeding (HT-2 every minute, with First Aid allowed). Note that it's primarily from the granularity of the system. Change the base damage of the attack by two points, either up or down, and the neck wound would be more severe in immediate effects: less, and the chest wound no longer pushes into negative HP to require consciousness rolls; more, and the neck wound requires a death check (With possible decapitation) and gets a -1 to consciousness rolls.

Quote:
actually I guess that counts as 2x major wounds with 2x HT rolls to avoid knock-down, but do you need to make two HT rolls to remove stun if you fail both Knock-down rolls?
You can't be doubly stunned. Stun is a single state, and only requires a single roll to remove it. (Well, okay, you can be physically stunned and mentally stunned, but only physical stun is relevant here)
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:33 AM   #73
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
For an 8-point cutting attack, it'd be about the same as the neck, except for significantly lower lethality, doing both 3/4 the damage (12 points) and having much less dangerous bleeding (HT-2 every minute, with First Aid allowed). Note that it's primarily from the granularity of the system. Change the base damage of the attack by two points, either up or down, and the neck wound would be more severe in immediate effects: less, and the chest wound no longer pushes into negative HP to require consciousness rolls; more, and the neck wound requires a death check (With possible decapitation) and gets a -1 to consciousness rolls.
True, although we're now talking about a 6 - 10 pt basic roll range which is quite a range of values (let alone effects). Of course given a campaign relatively close to human norm 6 is a more likely roll than 10.

I agree with you point about the granularity of the system, there's only so many data points between positive 1/3 HP and -1xHP where a lot of this goes on. Compounded by the fact that there are several threshold effects combining with this and specific location effects as well. Basically your right but I'm willing to bet that point would be true for pretty much any set of comparisons using this system. I don't have an problem with that though.

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Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
You can't be doubly stunned. Stun is a single state, and only requires a single roll to remove it. (Well, okay, you can be physically stunned and mentally stunned, but only physical stun is relevant here)
I didn't think so, I was just thinking about the compounded effects of having both legs chopped off rather than one, So I guess I'd have you having to make two rolls to avoid it but only one to remove it.

Which brings up a point about bleeding here. RAW (using MA and combining bleeding mods) a double leg severing is every 30 seconds and at -2 (from 12 pts damage to HP), -3 for one leg being destroyed -3 from another leg destroyed, and then another -1 for each one being actually severed = -10 to the bleeding roll.

So a HT10 target has an effective skill of 0 so he chances on the roll are 3-4 critical success 5-9 normal failure and a 10+ critical failure which so I work that out 1.9% bleeding stops (one wonders how but never mind), 35.6% of losing 1hp, and 62.5% of losing 3. And first aid would need to be pretty good to have realistic chance of stopping it.

I was toying with the idea of making separate bleeding rolls for multiple wounds, but I guess just stacking them works just as well when you factor in critical failure on extremely low effective HT rolls

EDIT: One thing I am thinking of trying is to allow extreme dismemberment of arms to actually involve the weapon going on to hit the torso rather than the other arm if that is more reasonable in the situation.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 04-02-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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