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Old 03-09-2013, 01:56 PM   #41
roguebfl
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Heres some quote from Kromm onn Observation and stealth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Precisely. The operative concept for Observation is gathering intelligence on a tactical and physical environment. The "not being seen" part is completely incidental to this. It isn't the primary goal of Observation, and it doesn't mean that Observation can stand in for Acting, Camouflage, Stealth, or other forms of concealment. It is simply a postscript added to make clear that if you do it right, the process of observation does not corrupt your intelligence with an observer effect. Your lack of guile or stealth may well still do this; while Observation teaches you not to let your binoculars glint and not to write your nighttime observations down by flashlight, it doesn't teach you how to hide behind trees or pass as a garbage man. For that, you still need Stealth or Acting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Observation only guarantees that if it works, it won't compromise existing concealment or deception arrived at via other means. "Other means" could be Acting, Camouflage, Disguise, Electronics Operation, Fast-Talk, Shadowing, Stealth, etc. The specific additional protection granted by Observation is knowledge of covert intelligence-gathering methods to use once you get into place. The clearest example is the "glint from binoculars" case: If I've hidden myself with Camouflage or Stealth in order to use Observation, then successful Observation means that I don't screw up Camouflage or Stealth by watching the target in a way that reflects light in his face. However, it can also apply in situations where you've used Acting, Carousing, or Streetwise to fit in at a bar, in which case it doesn't cover the "fitting in" part, only the "not craning your head over the partition or exposing the microphone in your lapel" element.

To compare it to another skill, consider Holdout. It doesn't let you conceal your identity or motives, only your possessions. It can let you hide a weapon (for instance) so that your Acting, Disguise, and Fast-Talk rolls aren't at a penalty or made automatic failures for a big, honking gun. But merely concealing the gun isn't enough to let you pass as "not a detective" or "not a gangster" if those you're trying to fool are on alert for detectives or gangsters. You still need to fit in, which demands other skills.

Both skills are ways to keep particular methods and equipment from messing with your attempt to keep a low profile. They aren't the primary means through which you attain a low profile, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Not at all. Please review the verbs:
This is the talent of observing dangerous or "interesting" situations without letting others know that you are watching.

This is the talent of observing dangerous or "interesting" situations without letting others know that you are present.
The former addresses the act of watching, which literally means the act of pointing your binoculars or microphone, or otherwise actively gathering data. The latter addresses the act of hiding. The rules specify the former, not the latter. You can use Stealth to disguise your presence, but without Observation, watching rather than simply hiding will screw this up. You can use Observation to disguise your intent, but without Stealth, you're not hidden and so it doesn't matter. It's quite possible to be good at Observation but not Stealth if you use means that don't allow the other person a Sense roll; e.g., a telescope from 1,000 yards. It's equally possible to be good at Stealth but not Observation. That's why the skills are separate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Precisely. The operative concept for Observation is gathering intelligence on a tactical and physical environment. The "not being seen" part is completely incidental to this. It isn't the primary goal of Observation, and it doesn't mean that Observation can stand in for Acting, Camouflage, Stealth, or other forms of concealment. It is simply a postscript added to make clear that if you do it right, the process of observation does not corrupt your intelligence with an observer effect. Your lack of guile or stealth may well still do this; while Observation teaches you not to let your binoculars glint and not to write your nighttime observations down by flashlight, it doesn't teach you how to hide behind trees or pass as a garbage man. For that, you still need Stealth or Acting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Observation only guarantees that if it works, it won't compromise existing concealment or deception arrived at via other means. "Other means" could be Acting, Camouflage, Disguise, Electronics Operation, Fast-Talk, Shadowing, Stealth, etc. The specific additional protection granted by Observation is knowledge of covert intelligence-gathering methods to use once you get into place. The clearest example is the "glint from binoculars" case: If I've hidden myself with Camouflage or Stealth in order to use Observation, then successful Observation means that I don't screw up Camouflage or Stealth by watching the target in a way that reflects light in his face. However, it can also apply in situations where you've used Acting, Carousing, or Streetwise to fit in at a bar, in which case it doesn't cover the "fitting in" part, only the "not craning your head over the partition or exposing the microphone in your lapel" element.

To compare it to another skill, consider Holdout. It doesn't let you conceal your identity or motives, only your possessions. It can let you hide a weapon (for instance) so that your Acting, Disguise, and Fast-Talk rolls aren't at a penalty or made automatic failures for a big, honking gun. But merely concealing the gun isn't enough to let you pass as "not a detective" or "not a gangster" if those you're trying to fool are on alert for detectives or gangsters. You still need to fit in, which demands other skills.

Both skills are ways to keep particular methods and equipment from messing with your attempt to keep a low profile. They aren't the primary means through which you attain a low profile, however.
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