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Old 11-29-2005, 06:55 AM   #181
zorg
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti
I've heard suggestions of using Allies before. I think it makes sense to use summonable allies if that's what you create, but it doesn't work for creating independent life, like gods tend to. The kind that doesn't necessarily do what the creator wants. Oh, well.
What about Snatcher (Lifeforms only)? You get a living creature where none existed before, and it's not under your control.
Technically, Snatcher gets any items from somewhere, but that somewhere could be "potential existence" or even "imagination of a god".

If using Allies, make them Unwilling.

Or give the God a huge Cosmic Modular Ability without limitations, but lots of enhancements. That way, he/she/it becomes almost omnipotent (with a large enough MA).
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:50 AM   #182
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti
Right. So the 'even gods' bit in the sales pitch is sort of rubbish then. My first disappointment with a book that, overall, seems very promising.

I've heard suggestions of using Allies before. I think it makes sense to use summonable allies if that's what you create, but it doesn't work for creating independent life, like gods tend to. The kind that doesn't necessarily do what the creator wants. Oh, well.

Seems weird to me that there's a power for producing complex items practically out of nothing (Snatcher) but not truly out of nothing.
I thought summonable allies did not HAVE to be slaves. (I don't have my book)
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Old 11-29-2005, 08:14 AM   #183
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti
I've heard suggestions of using Allies before. I think it makes sense to use summonable allies if that's what you create, but it doesn't work for creating independent life, like gods tend to. The kind that doesn't necessarily do what the creator wants.
***
Seems weird to me that there's a power for producing complex items practically out of nothing (Snatcher) but not truly out of nothing.
Tweaking the Unwilling mod for Allies would probably make it fit better. Call it Neutral and set the value at about the same as Unwilling. The Allies might have some slight inclination to aid their summoner, which would help to mitigate the limitation; otherwise, the assumption would be that they would be treated like any other NPC and would have to be persuaded to help.

Snatcher, properly modified, might as well be creating something out of nothing.. at least, to an observer w/o special senses. Given the game effect, there is some justification for saying that it does just that :/
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:27 AM   #184
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

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Originally Posted by nudj
I thought summonable allies did not HAVE to be slaves. (I don't have my book)
They do not. Summonable is not the same as Minion. Summonable mindless slaves have both.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:03 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Snatcher, properly modified, might as well be creating something out of nothing.. at least, to an observer w/o special senses. Given the game effect, there is some justification for saying that it does just that :/
Right. Snatcher just takes stuff from some other plane of existence. The GM can rule that there exists a plane full of stuff waiting to exist.
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:21 PM   #186
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

Note that all the rules are in place for Create to create just about anything. The GM who wants to allow an expensive Create (Life) advantage can do so with minimal fuss. However, near-omnipotent or omipotent deities who create planets, people, etc., aren't really possible on any finite point total. By "gods," Powers definitely means highly sphere-bound entities that are godlike next to humans, not deities like Ptah. Almost by definition, Ptah-like entities are infinite-point beings, since they are creation. Mind you, Allies (25% own point total; 10 billion people; Summonable, +100%) [120] is rules-legal, just campaign-breaking.
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:47 PM   #187
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti
Right. So the 'even gods' bit in the sales pitch is sort of rubbish then. My first disappointment with a book that, overall, seems very promising.
I said you cannot use Create to make lifeforms. I then said you would use Ally to do it. Kromm, earlier in this thread, backs me up on this. And you're reacting as though somehow GURPS (with or without Powers) doesn't allow you to create living beings.

If you're a Pyramid subscriber, page back a couple of weeks -- I had a whole article on nothing but Summonable Allies. (Not exactly in the vein you mention, but still plenty useful, methinks.)
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Old 11-29-2005, 06:53 PM   #188
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There is another thing too, 'Allies' already has character point costs as a factor, unlike 'Create' that seems to be bound by mass and monetary value, I suppose. A hypothetical Create (Life) power could mean you pay less to Create Superman than to Create an Elephant.

Despite the counter-intuitiveness of the names, Allies seems to be much more adequate for Life Creation.

Though I'd say Allies is one of the few GURPS traits that can get *hideously* unbalanced with no need for specialized munchkin cheats. I mean... Superman can Summon/Create Minion Half-Superman with no roll required paying only 20 points... I'm no min-maxer math wiz, but even I can see that is a hell of a bargain.
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:25 PM   #189
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Default Re: More powers excerpts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Narciso
Though I'd say Allies is one of the few GURPS traits that can get *hideously* unbalanced with no need for specialized munchkin cheats. I mean... Superman can Summon/Create Minion Half-Superman with no roll required paying only 20 points... I'm no min-maxer math wiz, but even I can see that is a hell of a bargain.
Actually, it isn't, because the "half supermen" are likely to be mostly useless cannon fodder in any game were Superman is a reasonable PC.

For a perfect example of where the 3e Ally rules were incredibly busted, go look up the baroque write-ups of the main protagonists in GURPS: Lensmen - 2,000 point super-psis with half a dozen equivalent point and power allies. The Allies add about 4,000 point to their character totals, taking them to ~6,000.

The more "high powered" games you play, the more you realise that the new rules are much more balanced. I'm playing a "kilopoint" 4e Fantasy game, and 500 point allies are generally not combat capable unless they're incredibly limited (eg: a 500 point combat Golem, built by the party technomancer / gadgeteer). Even then, they're nowhere near as competent as the well rounded "fighter type" PCs.

Social or knowlege based allies can be a lot more useful at the 50% points total, but those are more subject to GM control and approval.
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:39 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane
Actually, it isn't, because the "half supermen" are likely to be mostly useless cannon fodder in any game were Superman is a reasonable PC.
Really? I dunno, perhaps, I never played in a really high-power GURPS game. I'm going only by intuition here. Okay, if Superman can Summon Supergirl, for instance...

Even if she can't do anything better than he, he can still send her to do stuff when he is busy, for instance. If she is a normal Ally that appears quite often, that would be a grand total of 4 points for something that isn't game-breaking, but incredibly useful for a 4-point ability. I mean... Alternate Abilities are a bargain for 1/5 cost, but you can have a Summonable Alternate YOU for something a lot less than 1/5 of your own points.

But perhaps my half-Superman example wasn't really good. Much worse if "Superman" can summon someone with half his points but different powers.
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