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Old 09-24-2012, 12:48 AM   #1
AdmirableAdmiral
 
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Default More questions about Munchkin

Played a few mixed games today and thought of more questions.

15. The Cigarette Dart Gun is both a Gun and a one-shot. Can it have modifiers (Incendiary Ammo, Silencer, etc.) attached to it?

16. Does it receive bonuses from Marksmanship Training or being an Assassin?

17. If yes to either of the above, would these bonuses apply before or after doubling for Russian?

18. Are class restricted items considered a disadvantage of that class? (Eg. Can a Super Outlaw be the Sheriff?)

19. The Sheriff and Deputy Badges both contain the text "...you may not remove it except to discard it."
And they both have gold values. Can they be sold? Can/ must a Sheriff discard his badge if he becomes an Outlaw, or can he/ she not play that class?

20. If a Deputy gets out of helping a Sheriff (Western Onion Telegram, Diplomatic Immunity, etc.) can the Sheriff force him to help again, in the same combat?

21. Deputy Badge says "but if the Sheriff does not agree to help, he must give the Deputy a card." Let's say the Sheriff was demanding all the treasure, and it was the Deputy who refused that deal, does that still count as the Sheriff not agreeing to help?

22. If the Spook Spook or Grim Roper (or any other monster that must be fought alone) Wanders in (or joins via Undead rule) when there is already a helper, is the helper ejected from the combat?

6. (I didn't forget, just using creative numeric syntax) For Mexican Standoff, which makes the combat a tie regardless of cards previously played, should we assume it tied at the Munchkin's combat strength or the Monsters? I can't think of a scenario where that would affect anything right now, but I feel like it might matter what the actual numbers are (for doubling purposes) on cards I don't have. (Mate?)

23. The Bad Stuff for Wild Bill Hiccup says "Lose your Footgear. If you have no Footgear, lose a level." Armadillo's Bad Stuff "Lose your Footgear, or discard two cards if you have no Footgear."
The Crummy Old Boots cannot be lost to bad stuff, but are Footgear. If those were your only Footgear, would you avoid both possibilities from each of those bad stuff?

24. The effect of Dust Devil starts with "Before the combat, the person on your left chooses one item you have in play."
If the Monster was Wandered in, or joined an ongoing combat otherwise, does this still apply? I guess the general question here is: If a monster joins a combat, does the combat "restart?" (Obviously cards played to affect the combat would still apply)

25. The Ranch Hand (who is Level 10) can become your Sidekick (providing an extra hand). Does it also provide a combat bonus, and would it be +10?

26.The card also says "In addition to the normal Sidekick powers..." Are there powers beyond the auto escape sacrifice that I am unaware of?

27. Can a person ask for help at any time during combat, or does it have to be at the beginning? And can someone who initially turned down a request for help change their mind and offer it after seeing a card played (perhaps one that adds treasure)?

I am dry on curiosity. Thank you very much for your quick and thorough response!

**Edit** Please let me know if I have included too much of the card text and should paraphrase more.

Last edited by MunchkinMan; 09-24-2012 at 04:56 AM. Reason: legal issues
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:48 AM   #2
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Default Re: Few Munchkin questions

Please don't add any more questions to a large, multiple question thread. Andrew only added your question 13 because you already had a list going. That was not meant to imply that we want many questions in a thread. We prefer one question, or multiple questions if they are related, but those are preferences, not requirements. The problem is that the more questions, the more chances for tangents, which make it harder for us as moderators and rules experts to track down where a conversation is at any given moment, and if someone gives an incorrect answer before we can answer, and we miss the incorrect answer because of conversational flow, someone might get the wrong impression. Normally, if we had time, we'd actually try breaking up the questions in a thread like this, but lately, neither of us has what I'd call a surplus. Thanks!
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Last edited by MunchkinMan; 09-24-2012 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:30 AM   #3
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Default Re: More questions about Munchkin

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirableAdmiral View Post
Played a few mixed games today and thought of more questions.

15. The Cigarette Dart Gun is both a Gun and a one-shot. Can it have modifiers (Incendiary Ammo, Silencer, etc.) attached to it?

16. Does it receive bonuses from Marksmanship Training or being an Assassin?

17. If yes to either of the above, would these bonuses apply before or after doubling for Russian?
You can't normally modify a one-shot Item, so I'm going to say no, you can't play an Item Enhancer, even one specifically intended to go to a Gun, on Cigarette Dart Gun. I'd rule to allow the Assassin bonus since that's a bonus provided to the player, not a bonus added to an Item by an enhancer. Marksmanship Training, however, that's tough, since the wording implies that the bonus goes to the Item. I would probably end up allowing. I'll have to make sure Andrew sees this so he can give some more insider input on the Item Enhancers and Training issue.

Quote:
18. Are class restricted items considered a disadvantage of that class? (Eg. Can a Super Outlaw be the Sheriff?)
Yes.

Quote:
19. The Sheriff and Deputy Badges both contain the text "...you may not remove it except to discard it."
And they both have gold values. Can they be sold? Can/ must a Sheriff discard his badge if he becomes an Outlaw, or can he/ she not play that class?
Since selling is discarding the Item, yes, he can sell it. Once someone wearing Sheriff's Badge decides to become an Outlaw, they're going to have to stop using it. So, they can sell it, or use it to power an ability or turn it sideways. Again, I'll point Andrew to this to make sure he doesn't know something I don't. That "can't be removed" text is probably to prevent it from being traded, but it never hurts to double check.

Quote:
20. If a Deputy gets out of helping a Sheriff (Western Onion Telegram, Diplomatic Immunity, etc.) can the Sheriff force him to help again, in the same combat?
Those cards have different wordings. Diplomatic Immunity allows a player to leave the combat, while Western Onion Telegram says the player in combat is allowed to ask someone else, which means the Deputy could not be forced to help (unless, of course, someone else played another card which had the same wording to kick the new helper out).

Quote:
21. Deputy Badge says "but if the Sheriff does not agree to help, he must give the Deputy a card." Let's say the Sheriff was demanding all the treasure, and it was the Deputy who refused that deal, does that still count as the Sheriff not agreeing to help?
If the Deputy makes an offer that the Sheriff declines, or the Sheriff makes an offer that's beyond what the Deputy is willing to agree to, then the Sheriff is refusing to help at the cost the Deputy is willing to pay, which to me says that the Sheriff is not agreeing to help.

Quote:
22. If the Spook Spook or Grim Roper (or any other monster that must be fought alone) Wanders in (or joins via Undead rule) when there is already a helper, is the helper ejected from the combat?
Yes. Without penalty to them (i.e., no Bad Stuff).

Quote:
6. (I didn't forget, just using creative numeric syntax) For Mexican Standoff, which makes the combat a tie regardless of cards previously played, should we assume it tied at the Munchkin's combat strength or the Monsters? I can't think of a scenario where that would affect anything right now, but I feel like it might matter what the actual numbers are (for doubling purposes) on cards I don't have. (Mate?)
It doesn't matter. If you play Mate (or similar card) on a Monster, you're still going to add a Monster that has only the Monster's Level and any Monster Enhancers added to the it. The "bonus" from Mexican Standoff will not get doubled. So, pick any number you like and set it to that. I always like to just level off to the higher of the two sides.

Quote:
23. The Bad Stuff for Wild Bill Hiccup says "Lose your Footgear. If you have no Footgear, lose a level." Armadillo's Bad Stuff "Lose your Footgear, or discard two cards if you have no Footgear."
The Crummy Old Boots cannot be lost to bad stuff, but are Footgear. If those were your only Footgear, would you avoid both possibilities from each of those bad stuff?
Hmmmmmm. . . I always want Bad Stuff to hit, if at all possible, but the wording is tough. You certainly have no Footgear to lose. . .

Quote:
24. The effect of Dust Devil starts with "Before the combat, the person on your left chooses one item you have in play."
If the Monster was Wandered in, or joined an ongoing combat otherwise, does this still apply? I guess the general question here is: If a monster joins a combat, does the combat "restart?" (Obviously cards played to affect the combat would still apply)
We've changed this ruling, I think, to say that if a Monster with such a rule gets wandered in, that rule does not apply.

Quote:
25. The Ranch Hand (who is Level 10) can become your Sidekick (providing an extra hand). Does it also provide a combat bonus, and would it be +10?
No, you just get the extra Hand. +10 is way to big a combat bonus for just about anything in this game, and I see no easy way to even infer that you would get a bonus from anything said on that card or in the rules.

Quote:
26.The card also says "In addition to the normal Sidekick powers..." Are there powers beyond the auto escape sacrifice that I am unaware of?
My version doesn't say that. Can you tell me what printing you're cards are from? And, that's about it. You can use him to automatically escape.

Quote:
27. Can a person ask for help at any time during combat, or does it have to be at the beginning? And can someone who initially turned down a request for help change their mind and offer it after seeing a card played (perhaps one that adds treasure)?
Any time, and, yes. We're usually pretty loose about how getting help works, so I'm always willing to allow people multiple attempts at getting help, until it becomes obvious that no one is going to be swayed.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: More questions about Munchkin

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Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
Any time, and, yes. We're usually pretty loose about how getting help works, so I'm always willing to allow people multiple attempts at getting help, until it becomes obvious that no one is going to be swayed.
I think you meant to say you can ask for help at any time you are losing the combat, right?

And your suspicions were right on the rule changing for monsters with before combat effects. It's in the FAQ:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAQ
Q. One of my opponents adding a Wandering Monster that has a "before combat" effect (e.g., the Tongue Demon makes you discard an Item before combat). Since I'm already in combat, do I still have to do it?
A. No. You lucked out this time. (We reeeeeeally wanted to say yes, because we're munchkins, too, but that leads to timing issues.)
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: More questions about Munchkin

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmirableAdmiral View Post
23. The Bad Stuff for Wild Bill Hiccup says "Lose your Footgear. If you have no Footgear, lose a level." Armadillo's Bad Stuff "Lose your Footgear, or discard two cards if you have no Footgear."
The Crummy Old Boots cannot be lost to bad stuff, but are Footgear. If those were your only Footgear, would you avoid both possibilities from each of those bad stuff?
Good question :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
Hmmmmmm. . . I always want Bad Stuff to hit, if at all possible, but the wording is tough. You certainly have no Footgear to lose. . .
There are a few Footgear from Fantasy that also cannot be lost to Bad Stuff. Bear Feet and Barbarian Booties are two off the top of my head. So I'd also be curious to see what Andrew has to say about it.

If I had to make a snap judgment during a game, I'd say if you didn't lose the footgear, you'd suffer the other penalty. Unless, of course, you were already Level 1 in the former case, and had no cards in hand and no other cards on the table in the latter case.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: More questions about Munchkin

The wording of the Bad Stuff matters. If it says "Lose your Footgear. If you have no Footgear, do something else," and you have unloseable Footgear, then I think you skate because you can't lose your Footgear and you clearly HAVE Footgear.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #7
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The wording of the Bad Stuff matters. If it says "Lose your Footgear. If you have no Footgear, do something else," and you have unloseable Footgear, then I think you skate because you can't lose your Footgear and you clearly HAVE Footgear.
That makes sense. Good to know :) thank you.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:26 PM   #8
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My version doesn't say that. Can you tell me what printing you're cards are from? And, that's about it. You can use him to automatically escape.
1st Edition, 3rd Printing
Published October 2010

Also, thanks to everybody who took the time to read/ answer my questions. I'm sure I'll have more once my boosters finally show up in the mail.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by AdmirableAdmiral View Post
1st Edition, 3rd Printing
Published October 2010
I've just gone through several versions of the production database, and I'm still not finding the wording you've mentioned in any iteration.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:32 PM   #10
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I've just gone through several versions of the production database, and I'm still not finding the wording you've mentioned in any iteration.
The wording does exist, though. I don't want to link to it for obvious reasons, but the image on BoardGameGeek for Ranch Hand does show the "In addition to the normal Sidekick powers" text.
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