Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-31-2012, 07:44 PM   #11
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

Autoduel Quarterly Vol. 6, No. 3 had a report of the 1988 AADA World Dueling Championship with photos of a 3-D Hammer Downs Autoduel Arena.

The Driver's Seat column in that issue included rules changes to the Hammer Downs Arena. I have reprinted that information below.




But recently, when building the 3-D model of Hammer Downs for the World Championships, we came across a problem in the Arena Book. The height of the upper level of Hammer Downs is listed as 30 feet high. Well, that's wrong - that puts the ramps in the corners at a 45-degree angle. So, due to massive earthquakes and subsidence in the Detroit area, the upper level has sunk into the ground and is now only 15' high. Now, vehicles within 1/2" if the edge may fire down at targets more than 1" away from the edge; they may shoot at the top armor of cars within 4" of the edge.

Stephen Beeman
The Driver's Seat
ADQ Vol. 6, No. 3
Fall 2038 (1988)
__________________
Michael P. Owen
Seattle Washington Autoduel Team
http://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html
http://owenmp.wordpress.com
owenmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 07:49 PM   #12
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

There is currently a copy of the 1988 Car Wars Arena Book 1988 Edition on eBay. The book is used but is complete.

Car Wars Arena Book - Steve Jackson - Good / Uncut
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Wars-Are...m=290718898416
Item condition: Used
Buy It Now Price: US $16.99
Item number: 290718898416
__________________
Michael P. Owen
Seattle Washington Autoduel Team
http://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html
http://owenmp.wordpress.com
owenmp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 06:31 PM   #13
ammulder
 
ammulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Philadelphia Area
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parody View Post
This is Warrior Stadium from L'Outrance, not Hammer Downs. Warrior Stadium is a good choice for a 3D map for 1x-3x scale, as is the Rubberway (also from L'Outrance).
Heh, heh... I guess that was my poor memory at fault. I have the Arena Book but not the maps any more, and they didn't include the little pics for the couple of arenas where the whole map was in the book. Guess I'll have to update that page... :)
ammulder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #14
KWScott
 
KWScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Austin, TX.
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

The 3D Hammer Downs used in the 2038 World Championship was built to 2.5 x Car Wars scale... I went through all the arguments you're having now way back then... Here's why I chose the scale I did.

Car Wars is 1:180 scale... 1 inch is 15 feet. (Close to N Scale)
2 x Car Wars is 1:90... Close to HO Scale, but models are generally too big for a 1x2 inch counter in this scale.
3 x Car Wars is 1:60... which is right in the ballpark for the 1:64 Hot Wheels, but again, I found the cars to be too big for the counters in many cases.
2.5 x Car Wars is 1:72... which is a Very Common modeling scale, and there are many, many planes, trains, and automobiles out there that fit... But what I found is that 1:72nd models are too big for a counter, unless you're dealing with small cars. However, the Model Railroad industry has Myriad choices of (easily paintable and modifiable plastic) model cars at 1:87 HO Scale, which while at 1:90 were too big for the counters, at 1:72 work just perfect...

Oh... Yes... Important point... I mounted all the cars on appropriately sized counter bases (1.25 x 2.5 inches), so the turn-key and measurements, and arcs were measured off the Counter, not the Model, which makes everything play just like the 1x scale game.

At 1:72, Hammer Downs is about (I'm slipping into memory here... I can update later with real dimensions later once I get home) 7ish feet across, which made a long, but possible reach to the middle of the arena. At 3x scale, it would have been Way too big.
__________________
Kenneth W. Scott
  • Old Skool Geek & Former Car Wars Guru
  • The guy responsible for Uncle Al's Catalog from Hell & Hovercraft among other things
  • Founding Member of the River City Autoduel Association (RCADA)
KWScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 02:06 PM   #15
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by owenmp View Post
Autoduel Quarterly Vol. 6, No. 3 had a report of the 1988 AADA World Dueling Championship with photos of a 3-D Hammer Downs Autoduel Arena.

The Driver's Seat column in that issue included rules changes to the Hammer Downs Arena. I have reprinted that information below.




But recently, when building the 3-D model of Hammer Downs for the World Championships, we came across a problem in the Arena Book. The height of the upper level of Hammer Downs is listed as 30 feet high. Well, that's wrong - that puts the ramps in the corners at a 45-degree angle. So, due to massive earthquakes and subsidence in the Detroit area, the upper level has sunk into the ground and is now only 15' high. Now, vehicles within 1/2" if the edge may fire down at targets more than 1" away from the edge; they may shoot at the top armor of cars within 4" of the edge.

Stephen Beeman
The Driver's Seat
ADQ Vol. 6, No. 3
Fall 2038 (1988)
Ken, since you seem to be commenting on this thread, I wonder if you'd be up to commenting on an issue I've run into specifically. I was working on a 3-D map of the arena awhile back and I think that this ADQ article is wrong. Specifically, that the 30 foot height is correct.

The ADQ article is right if you figure that the size of the ramps on the maps is the distance you'd travel on the ramp (the hypotenuse) rather than the footprint on the map (the base).

On the other hand, if you assume that the size on the map is the base of the ramp (and not the distance that you'd travel on the ramp), the math works out exactly like it is described in the Arena Book.

As the ADQ item was based on your work, I was curious if you could shed some light on it.
__________________
Dynamax Designs, Designing quality since 2035.
Magesmiley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 02:20 PM   #16
kjamma4
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

If I was going to build any arena now in 3D, my go to scale would be 1.5X (Micro Machines.)

IMHO, they give you the visual wow of 3D models, are still fairly easy to acquire, and don't appreciably take up that much more space than normal scale.
kjamma4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 08:55 PM   #17
KWScott
 
KWScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Austin, TX.
Default Re: Hammer Downs... source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
Ken, since you seem to be commenting on this thread, I wonder if you'd be up to commenting on an issue I've run into specifically. I was working on a 3-D map of the arena awhile back and I think that this ADQ article is wrong. Specifically, that the 30 foot height is correct.

The ADQ article is right if you figure that the size of the ramps on the maps is the distance you'd travel on the ramp (the hypotenuse) rather than the footprint on the map (the base).

On the other hand, if you assume that the size on the map is the base of the ramp (and not the distance that you'd travel on the ramp), the math works out exactly like it is described in the Arena Book.

As the ADQ item was based on your work, I was curious if you could shed some light on it.
The upper level height of Hammer Downs was changed because of the Arena I built... at 30 feet it was redonkulous. :)

Just depends on who you take as your source of truth... The Arena was originally designed by Tim Ray, who set the upper deck height at 30 feet above the arena floor... I, when building the 3D version, found that to be unpleasing and built it with the upper deck at 15 feet... Didn't drastically change anything, but it looked better, was easier to get to cars on the arena floor, and the ramps in the corners weren't so steep.
__________________
Kenneth W. Scott
  • Old Skool Geek & Former Car Wars Guru
  • The guy responsible for Uncle Al's Catalog from Hell & Hovercraft among other things
  • Founding Member of the River City Autoduel Association (RCADA)
KWScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.