Is Piloting (Aerospace) only good for atmospheric flight?

[Captain Joy]

According to B214, Piloting (Aerospace) allows you to pilot:

Any vehicle capable of atmospheric flight to and from orbit.

It has the usual default of Piloting (any other)-4, and a more generous default: Piloting (High-Performance Airplane)-2. I emphasize "Airplane" to call attention to the fact that this skill (specifically?) deals with flight through atmosphere.

I had been ruling in my Star Trek game that the skill to fly a shuttlecraft while in atmosphere was Piloting (Aerospace), but if you were flying it in open space, the skill was Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft).

Am I doing it right?

I'm thinking of changing it to Piloting (Aerospace) for when you're flying the shuttle near enough to a planet for it's gravitation field to effect flight, and Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft) for when you're not near a planet.

Or, I'm thinking that a shuttlecraft is closer to an aerospace vehicle than anything else, so that skill covers it completely. Similarly, landing an Intrepid Class starship (which is clearly a high-performance spacecraft) on the surface of a planet would use Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft), not Piloting (Aerospace).

I'm interested what this always informative forum community has to say.

EDIT: The discussions in this thread lead a Piloting House rule that I use in my Star Trek campaign. You can see it at post #14.

[Langy]

I've always treated anything that could interface between air and space as Piloting (Aerospace) no matter if it's in the air, in orbit, or lightyears away from the closest planet.

That said, the most realistic method might be to treat it as if it were Piloting (Aerospace) when going between orbit and the atmosphere or vice versa, treat it as if it's Piloting (High Performance Airplane) when it's fully in the atmosphere and has fully bled off its orbital velocity, and Piloting (High Performance Spacecraft) when in space. Either that, or Piloting (Aerospace) should be a harder skill than Piloting (Spacecraft) or (Aircraft).

[vicky_molokh]

Funny, I always considered Aerospace to be overpowered, because I thought that it was usable with both space manoeuvres and atmospheric ones, as long as the vehicle fell under this specialization. IMO, the coexistence of HPA, HPS, and Aerospace is kinda the remnant of skill bloat.

[Celjabba]

When discussing a pilot character with a player, I parsed that skill description as:
'Any vehicle capable of atmospheric flight' : the vehicle concerned
'to and from orbit' : the maneuver the skill cover.
and since I judged it too limited, I converted it into a technique (starting at -2 from HPA, -4 from HPS).

If you look at it as the skill to fly a atmo-and-space capable ship in both medium, it is overpowered compared to the other specialization, imho.

Celjabba

[RogerBW]

I tend to treat it by type of activity - so flying a surface-to-orbit vehicle is Aerospace, but orbital manoeuvres beyond basic dock/undock are (Low|High)-Performance Spacecraft. Yes, this does mean you can sometimes use different skills to achieve the same thing (e.g. the final docking with your target).

(And pointing the nuclear saltwater rocket at a shoggoth - sorry, the researchers prefer the name "nanotech-based servitor" - while in atmosphere was Aerospace with penalties.)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

I had been ruling in my Star Trek game that the skill to fly a shuttlecraft while in atmosphere was Piloting (Aerospace), but if you were flying it in open space, the skill was Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft).

Am I doing it right?

Yes, you're doing it right. The more lenient jet pilot default indicates it has more to do with operations in atmosphere and low orbit than it does with operations in actual space.

[adm]

For what it is worth, GURPS Prime Directive treats Piloting Shuttlecraft as a separate skill which Defaults to Aerospace-4 or Starship-2, depending on where you are using it.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

I tend to treat it by type of activity - so flying a surface-to-orbit vehicle is Aerospace, but orbital manoeuvres beyond basic dock/undock are (Low|High)-Performance Spacecraft.

I tend to agree, although my standard is to and from orbit. That is, as long as you're using thrust as lift in order to stay aloft, then you're using aerospace. Once you're staying aloft because you've achieved (or exceeded) orbital velocity, you're piloting a spaceship. In the same way, if you're achieving lift by an airfoil, then you're flying an aircraft (with the exception of helicopters, which is another issue).

Yes, this does mean you can sometimes use different skills to achieve the same thing (e.g. the final docking with your target).

A tangental aside, but this is one of my fundamental philosophies when GM'ing: many times a character can use two or more skills to accomplish the same task.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

I tend to agree, although my standard is to and from orbit. That is, as long as you're using thrust as lift in order to stay aloft, then you're using aerospace. Once you're staying aloft because you've achieved (or exceeded) orbital velocity, you're piloting a spaceship. In the same way, if you're achieving lift by an airfoil, then you're flying an aircraft...

Yes, I dig these explanations.

I think I'll go with something like this:

• Starships
  • In Atmosphere--Soft Landing, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Atmosphere--Surface to Orbit, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Orbit, use Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft)
  • In Space, use Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft)
• Shuttlecraft
  • In Atmosphere--Soft Landing, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Atmosphere--Surface to Orbit, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Orbit, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Space, use Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft)
• Fighters
  • In Atmosphere--Combat Flight, use Piloting (High-Performance Airplane)
  • In Atmosphere--Non-Combat Flight, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Orbit, use Piloting (Aerospace)
  • In Space, use Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft)

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

I had been ruling in my Star Trek game that the skill to fly a shuttlecraft while in atmosphere was Piloting (Aerospace), but if you were flying it in open space, the skill was Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft). Am I doing it right?

GURPS Spaceships p. 40 says:
"Spacecraft with wings, contragravity lifters, or if streamlined and with an acceleration greater than local gravity, can fly in an atmosphere. Use the rules on p. B466 for air travel. Use Piloting (Aerospace) skill rather than their normal spaceship operation skill. Ships using contragravity lifters use Piloting (Contragravity)."
Any ship with over 0.1g uses Piloting (High-Performance Spacecraft) when not flying in atmosphere.