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Old 12-13-2011, 02:27 AM   #71
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

I don't speak Spanish, but I have a copy of Mundodisco: El Juego de Rol to hand, and it appears that, in the GURPS 3e Lite version in that, Thrust and Swing are translated as Estocada and Tajo.

(Consistency between editions and books isn't sacred, but it rarely hurts.)
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:45 AM   #72
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
I don't speak Spanish, but I have a copy of Mundodisco: El Juego de Rol to hand, and it appears that, in the GURPS 3e Lite version in that, Thrust and Swing are translated as Estocada and Tajo.

(Consistency between editions and books isn't sacred, but it rarely hurts.)
(so do I, and I also owned a copy of 3rd ed revised in Spanish)

And this consistency is already missing, since 3rd ed revised in Spanish used "Acometida" and "Mandoble". The issue is that 3rd ed revised was published by La Factoria de Ideas and Discworld was published by Edge Entertainment.

As for those terms, they have the same issues that have been already given in this thread. "Estocada" means thrust in a fencing context, but completely fails for things like punches, while "Acometida" works for both. "Tajo" means literally cut, with some swinging overtones, so using a staff, it sounds very strange, since the cutting part is primary while the swinging part is secondary.

As it's been already discused before, thrust is relatively straighforward to translate, and the 3rd ed revised "Acometida" is almost perfect. Swing however, is much harder.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:13 AM   #73
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
What silly jokes can I get out of empuje?
You are asking me to let the cat out of the bag.

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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
I don't speak Spanish, but I have a copy of Mundodisco: El Juego de Rol to hand, and it appears that, in the GURPS 3e Lite version in that, Thrust and Swing are translated as Estocada and Tajo.

(Consistency between editions and books isn't sacred, but it rarely hurts.)
Aha, I don't have that book. "Estocada" and "Tajo" is one of the most straightforward translations here, and both being combat related terms, it would be technically correct. The issue is that both terms assume specific types of weapons and exclude others: "Estocada" implies a piercing or impaling weapon, while "Tajo" implies a cutting one. Thus, such terms aren't suited for describing thrusting or swinging attacks made with -for instance- a Quarterstaff, causing crushing damage.

Instead of "Estocada", the term "Acometida" used in the translation of GURPS Basic Set (third edition) by the Spanish publisher La Factoría de Ideas years ago is broader and more suitable for translating the GURPS term thrust.

And arrived to this point, we have proposed a number of alternatives for translating swing, the most tricky of these two terms.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Kuroshima.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:23 PM   #74
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

I still find weird "Acometida". I dont remember ever using that word for combat and I practice western martial arts.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:03 PM   #75
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

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Originally Posted by Exar_Kun View Post
I still find weird "Acometida". I dont remember ever using that word for combat and I practice western martial arts.
I think that it's good to have more people participating in this thread, and great if they know Spanish. Exar_Kun: if you have a better term, please share it!

My take, my guess, is that since there are many martial arts, each one of them with their own terms suited for their specific attacks and movements, if we use the specific vocabulary of one of them we are going to find the aforementioned difficulty of using "Estocada" for attacking with the tip of a quarterstaff, or "Tajo" for swinging a weapon without blade: we need broad terms for the ample repertoire of weapons available in the GURPS system, terms applicable to piercing weapons, to weapons with blade, to weapons without blade nor point, etc.

So, in this case, maybe a linguistic approach is better than a martial arts one. I think that the linguistic approach was the one used for picking "Acometida" instead "Estocada" for thrusting attacks.

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
  • Thrust -> Acometida (Official 3rd ed translation)
  • Swing -> Revés (The official 3rd ed translation was Mandoble, and IMHO this one is better. It means backhand, when in a Tennis vontext, and it's the closest thing we could think.)
I've been thinking about revés for translating swing in the context of GURPS. And seemingly it makes sense beyond tennis.

According to the dictionary of the Real Academia Española (RAE), this term has also a martial arts meaning (Esgrima):

Quote:
revés.

(Del lat. reversus, vuelto).

(. . .)

7. m. Esgr. Golpe que se da con la espada diagonalmente, partiendo de izquierda a derecha.
Translated to English: "Diagonal strike with a sword, from left to right."

And even if a sword is mentioned, the term retains a broader meaning for crushing attacks. Perhaps I'm missing something, but to my mind revés seems very fit for translating swing.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:18 AM   #76
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Well, "revés" is also used for a back of the hand blow, done in a swinging motion. I really like the term ;)
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:00 AM   #77
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Another approach:

Seeing the console/computer game "Dark Souls", there are many swords with two attack modes, like GURPS Swing/Thrust attack and damage types: in that game the equivalents are Regular/Thrust.

This Regular is, according to the descriptions, animations and effects, equivalent to the Swing term that GURPS uses, and its Spanish translation is Normal. Thus, this example motivates me to translate GURPS Swing in the same way, resulting in:

English:
Swing / Thrust

Spanish:
Normal / Acometida

Here is a screenshot of the Dark Souls GUI translated into Spanish, with a Claymore as example.

EDIT: I forgot to add that "Normal" (Regular) has a general application, so it fits with non-cutting weapons like the Quarterstaff as well.
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Last edited by demonsbane; 09-20-2012 at 07:00 AM. Reason: More on "Regular"
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:48 PM   #78
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
As it's been already discused before, thrust is relatively straighforward to translate, and the 3rd ed revised "Acometida" is almost perfect. Swing however, is much harder.
In portuguese we use "Golpe de Ponta" for Thurst and "Golpe de Balanço" for Swing. It work fine IMO.
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