[4e] Battlesuit skill broken?

[Mark Skarr]

I've got to stop this. I spend so much time quoting, I think I'm eating all SJGames' bandwidth.

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

If you jump in an NBC suit, are you "operating" it? Sure, jumping in full NBC gear isn't easy, but IMHO, the "Jumping with Encumbrance" rules on page 352 already take that into account.

But, you don't "jump" in an NBC suit. You run the risk of unsealing it.

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

OK, so you operate environment suits, but that doesn't mean that they're vehicles. You also operate electronic equipment.

I already agreed, by the definition of the skill, Battlesuits are protective equipment.

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

If you're going to use the skill as written, or using substitution, I would say that the difficulty would depend on the sophistication of the gear that you're using. IMHO, anime-style battlesuits should be easier to use than clunky, first-generation battlesuits. With computer controls, I can see you being able to (for instance) jump further and more accurately.

Again, the anime-inspired suits are covered by the last sentance of the third paragraph.

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

On the other hand, I don't see having a high skill in using an unpowered suit (like an NBC suit) giving you bonuses to jump.

I agree. I was specifically suggesting the change for powered armor. Not to the skill, overall. My bad. I should have been more clear.

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

Sure. But the Environment Suit skill caps all rolls against DX or any DX-based skill used while in the suit. I haven't found any other skills with this particular feature.

But, this skill is also unlike any other skills. I still stand by the bulk of the skill (again, omitting anime-style suits which are covered with the last sentance of the third paragraph) since the suits are going to be bulky, in general.

Originally Posted by teviet

You would think that there should be some advantage to a suit that has your same general size and body plan, and that responds automatically to your natural movement through kinesthetic feedback. But instead it seems to make things worse.

Arguably, yes. However, it is just as likely that you would be hindered because if you don't know how to use it well enough, the suits automatic functions could and probably would interfere with you.

Originally Posted by teviet

The only possible way to twist the strict interpretation is for the Environment Suit skill to limit your final modified skill level. But this seems slightly unnatural. Otherwise, as has been mentioned, you could use the skill to limit your DX, and adjust DX-based skills accordingly. This fits a bit more smoothly, IMNSHO.

Honesty about not being humble, I like that in an adversary! MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry.
But, no. I agree with you in a general sense. It depends on your genre and your specific game.

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

OK. I look forward to more arguing at that time. It's been fun so far. :-)

That'll probably be it for a while. Busy weekend ahead.

[Pragmatic]

I don't wnat to go through six pages of posts (yeah, I'm lazy :) ), and I don't know all the stuff from 4e, but for those who want battlesuit skill to be a limit on other skills or activities (e.g., jumping, running), wouldn't that call for making it a technique?

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I don't wnat to go through six pages of posts (yeah, I'm lazy :) ), and I don't know all the stuff from 4e, but for those who want battlesuit skill to be a limit on other skills or activities (e.g., jumping, running), wouldn't that call for making it a technique?

The argument is that it already does limit jumping, and not everyone thinks it should.

[teviet]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I don't wnat to go through six pages of posts (yeah, I'm lazy :) ), and I don't know all the stuff from 4e, but for those who want battlesuit skill to be a limit on other skills or activities (e.g., jumping, running), wouldn't that call for making it a technique?

This might make some sense, though in some ways it is the complete opposite to how things work as written.

According to B192, Environment Suit skill caps all other DX-based skills. Thus it is most crippling if you have one other particular skill (e.g. Guns) that you want to be an expert in: you end up having to pay for two skills to improve in just one. But once you do, it lifts the cap from all your other lesser skills.

On the other hand, if battlesuits gave a flat DX penalty that individual skills could cancel using a Technique (While In a Battlesuit), then you pay a flat cost per skill to remove the penalty. Fine for the squad sniper, but cripplingly expensive for a Battlesuited generalist who wants to be competent in many skills.

So which is better? Neither is entirely satisfying to me. They both penalize the trooper more than someone driving a car while aiming with a joystick.

TeV

[Mark Skarr]

See, that's one thing I've always thought GURPS needed was differentiation between using a computer to aim your weapons and aiming your heavy weapons manually. Do you really need a gunner skill to guide a set of crosshairs onto a target? Shouldn't that be "Electronics Operation: Weaponry." After all Sulu doesn't have Gunner: Beams. He couldn't go down into the phaser bay and manually aim them (at least, I assume he couldn't that would be too dangerous). He simply tells the computer that he wants to shoot the Klingon Bird of Prey and the computer generates a firing solution. And there really isn't any difference between that and firing Photon Torpedoes. You don't so much aim the cannon on an A-10 as you point the plane at what you want to go away and pull a trigger. That's not a gunner skill roll either, that's piloting.

But, in a battlesuit, you're comparing your DX to the suit's DX.

That might actually be a better way to replicate it. Give the Battlesuit a DX rating. Base your skills of the suit's DX or your DX, which ever is lower. Yes, that still hurts the character, but it makes more sense. If the suit isn't as fluid as your movements are, you'll be at a disadvantage.