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Old 07-07-2011, 10:40 PM   #1
b1gje55e
 
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Default Question about cutting a throat.

Hello I am somewhat new to the GURPS scene and have a question.

I have read nearly every GURPS4E Book out there for the answer. With only a few hints to help. Here is the scenario: We were in a campaign and one of my PCs wanted to assassinate someone when their back was to him. The NPC had seen him but was preoccupied by talking to another PC. PC1 said that he wanted to pull his knife out and cut his throat. Being the DM I honestly had no idea how to handle this so I just let him have it. "Okay, hes dead." Later that night I was looking for something to help me in this scenario if it comes up again (it will with these guys LOL). The only thing I could find similar to this was on page B405.
It talks only about the garrote. "Once you are in position, roll
against Garrote skill to hit. You must target the neck, at the usual -5 to hit. In most cases, your target is unaware... The victim may attempt to parry with his hand or a ready close-combat weapon, but he does so at -3. Unless he has Combat Reflexes, he is most likely mentally stunned, for an additional -4 to his defense roll... (here it talks about grappling, which I don't think applies here unless defense wins, but that is obvious)... An improvised garrote (almost any piece of rope) gives -2 to skill. A wire garrote must be equipped with handles, or you will take thrust/cutting damage to each hand!"

Here is my thought: replace Garrote skill with Knife skill in this case. Defense is the same. No grappling unless defense wins. And of course IF defense DOES win and parries then they will take damage to the hand. What do you guys think.
If there is a page in one of the books that explains this please tell me.
-BigJesse-
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:49 PM   #2
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

Why would you need any special rules? We've already got perfectly good rules for a knife attack to the neck and for attacks from various facings. And sort of ok rules for surprise attacks. There's no reason to cross over rules for a garrote, most of which are just implications of the general rules in the first place.

A sneak attack like this would usually be done as an All Out Telegraphic attack, since your victim is going to have severely limited defenses if any and there shouldn't be anyone functional to take advantage of your defenselessness. A neck (or neck arteries, as the case might be) attack is fairly likely to not directly kill the victim, but if you've got Serious Bleeding in effect that has a good chance of finishing the job even if you don't bother to cut them some more.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:55 PM   #3
gjc8
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

As a general rule, if someone is unaware, they get no defense at all, and that means unaware of the attack, even if he's aware of the attacker in general (see page 374 in Campaigns).

The garrote rule is an exception. Presumably, using a garrote is somewhat more cumbersome than an actual attack (since it's ONLY available against an unaware target), so perhaps it allows more time to respond.

So, assuming the player isn't in a HUGE hurry, they can take 3 turns to Evaluate, make an All-Out Attack against the hit location of their choice, and the hapless victim wouldn't get a defense.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:03 PM   #4
lexington
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

For a moderately skilled person the most effective move is likely to be a Rapid Strike to slash the neck twice, with Evaluate, All-Out, and Telegraphic the net penalty is -0. This seems to be a good way to replicate the move of stabbing into the neck from the side the slashing out, forward.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:06 PM   #5
AmesJainchill
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

The gory details of new hit locations are in Martial Arts.
Campaigns mentions in the section on injury, that a defenseless opponent can simply be killed. A guy who is unaware doesn't qualify for this.

Make an All-Out Attack (Determined) for +4 to hit, Evaluate for three seconds for +3...target the neck for x2 damage, the vitals gives x3, and the skull gives x4...using Telegraphic Attack from Martial Arts gives another +4 to hit (but +2 to defend, but it's not too worrying here.).

With even average strength, you can easily reduce someone to a bloody heap.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:16 PM   #6
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
For a moderately skilled person the most effective move is likely to be a Rapid Strike to slash the neck twice, with Evaluate, All-Out, and Telegraphic the net penalty is -0. This seems to be a good way to replicate the move of stabbing into the neck from the side the slashing out, forward.
Doesn't work like that. For one, Evaluate doesn't stack with Telegraphic, IIRC. For another, there's no good reason to Rapid Strike on an All Out (Determined), rather than All Out (Double), unless you've got reduced Rapid Strike penalties.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:17 PM   #7
trooper6
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

I'm with gjc8.

I tend to use Tactical Combat Rules.
B391 says that you cannot defend against attacks from your rear hex.

So PC Kenny Knife (ST12, Large Knife, Skill 14) is standing behind Gary the Guard.
Gary the Guard knows the Kenny is there, but assumes Kenny is a friend (or something like this), further the guard is giving directions to Della the Distraction.

Kenny Evaluates for three seconds (+3). Then Fast Draws his knife, steps into close combat, and makes a Telegraphic Attack (+4).

If you are using Basic Only:
Kenny goes for Impaling to the Neck (-5), Total skill 16. Kenny is going to make this attack in all likelihood.

Gary gets no defense.

Kenny does 1d-1imp damage. Let's say that's a role of 2 damage. x2 for Impaling damage: 4 damage total.

Now...this leaves Gary alive, bleeding, and ready to turn around to attack. It might have been better for Kenny to take an All-Out Attack (Double). The first attack a grapple to the head, then the stab to the neck.

Now Gary is grappled and and has very limited choices. Kenny can stab him to death...or hold him until he bleeds out.

If you are using Martial Arts, Kenny could have stabbed him in the neck artery for x2.5 damage rather than x2 damage.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:44 PM   #8
b1gje55e
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

As I said before fellas I am somewhat of a noob to GURPS so all of the rules are not in my memory banks to use at will so... With that said trooper6 seemed to sum it up the best with his Tactical Combat scenario. I believe this would be the best for my expertise and campaign. Thanks guys. I'm sure once I get more familiar with the game I will catch on easier.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Doesn't work like that. For one, Evaluate doesn't stack with Telegraphic, IIRC. For another, there's no good reason to Rapid Strike on an All Out (Determined), rather than All Out (Double), unless you've got reduced Rapid Strike penalties.
For those who missed it:
Quote:
Martial Arts, pg113, Telegraphic Attack: The +4 to hit doesn’t “stack” with the bonus for Evaluate, either. You can combine it with all other combat options.
So, either evaluate for +1 per turn (hoping he ignores you) or do it before he can turn around and you can have +4 because with no defense that +2 is worthless to him.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:59 AM   #10
Maz
 
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Default Re: Question about cutting a throat.

A couple of notes.

1) Cut does x2 to the neck, so depending on the knife, you might want to go for swing-cut instead of thrust-impaling.

2) If you surprise-attack someone he should be at the very least partially surprised (if he is a guard on watch duty) or completely surprise (if he is anyone else). This should ensure you have a couple of seconds to do the work, even after the initial attack.

3) Remember that in GURPS multi-attacks in one turn can easily represent a single attack. So a AOA:double to the neck could represent plunging the knife in, and then slashing outwards. Or could represent a long deep slash. So you get the Hollywood visual of a single motion to cut the neck and not the manic- effect of someone continuously stabbing someone in the neck.

4) remember that unlike most other systems. GURPS is realistic in that people very rarely "insta-dies". Instead they take enough damage to cause a major wound witch would take down most people (even if they make their HT roll) or if your lucky, reduce them to below 0 HP, which would take out most people in a couple of seconds.


So, example:
ST:12, Skill 14. Large knife.

Making Telegraphic AOA:double. (skill:14-5neck+4telegraphic=13 (83% chance) x2). Not a stretch to assume both hits.
Someone trained in this would have Targeted Attack technique from Martial Arts as well.

2x 1d cut dam. = 3+4 x2 = 14 dam. enough to take even a tough guy down to below 0 HP and cause a Major Wound.
So the target has to roll an immediate HT check for Major wound and then one each turn to stay concious.
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