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Old 09-09-2010, 03:24 PM   #41
Kromm
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Assuming of course that said critters have CP totals so that they can be used with Ally and Alternate Form.
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Originally Posted by Jerander View Post
I'd rather have statted and CPed real-world creatures.
Which compels me to emphasize that this general sentiment is what has delayed the project for so long. Were we convinced that we could sell Third Edition-style bestiaries, with seat-of-the-pants stats blocks and no point costs or complicated advantage builds, there would've been Fourth Edition bestiaries years ago. By our fairly careful estimates, adding in the need to build beasts on points multiplies the workload by three or four. More harshly, that need narrows the pool of writers from "dozens" down to "one or two we'd really trust to get the stats and formatting right."

That's strictly FYI. It isn't a criticism of the desire to have points totals. I understand that viewpoint, and actively endorsed it in DF 5 and DF 9 (and, really, in DF 3). But I won't lie and say it's a marginal extra. It's most of the work, and nobody much has filled us with faith that they could turn in hundreds of critters with 90%+ of the stats and formatting correct. We're okay with having to edit 90% to 99%, but not with having to edit work that's at 80%, 70%, or worse. Even some very good and long-established GURPS writers only bat .500 on stats and/or formatting . . . and when it's "and" and not "or," that can amount to 25%.

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Originally Posted by kmunoz View Post
I did, last year, for a predators e23 book. At the time I was told that SJG was "evaluating other approaches to the bestiary line" and that they were "close to a resolution" on that.
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Originally Posted by jalapeno_dude View Post
Of course, there's been no mention of it since, so it may have been dropped again...
We're still looking at plans for it and still discussing what to do. We have somebody in mind, and we made more progress on 4/30/2010. But the above requirement for crunch means we cannot assign that work until that somebody is done other work.

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Originally Posted by kmunoz View Post

It's my understanding that GURPS Bestiary has been attempted and put on hold more than once, due to a variety of factors. I can imagine how difficult it must be to put together: it requires more art than most other books and is 99.9% crunchy.
It's mainly the crunch that's delaying it. As I said, if people were happy with Basic Set-style stats blocks and no points, then we would be discussing errata in the bestiaries released in 2006, not the release dates of bestiaries that still don't exist in 2010.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

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adding in the need to build beasts on points multiplies the workload by three or four.
IME that's a very generous estimate. :/

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
We're still looking at plans for it and still discussing what to do. We have somebody in mind, and we made more progress on 4/30/2010. But the above requirement for crunch means we cannot assign that work until that somebody is done other work.
Glad to hear that it's still on the burners. I take it the plan would be to produce a hardcover, printed edition, rather than a collection of e23 books?
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

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But the above requirement for crunch means we cannot assign that work until that somebody is done other work.
*beth makes a private bet with herself on who you've got in mind for this*
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

While the full stated up with points, and ready to run Real world beasts + archaically monsters serve two complimentary masters

The minimum time, "I just need something that works" crowed, but it also servers the customizers be providing them a solid foundation. it was meant to have be comparable to a wolf pack, i didn't mean it to treat my low point gritty party like wood though a chipper!, And my scary monster that should have been about the power of a T-rex wasn't meant to be that weak! Basically it give them a frame of reference, paying for the research being done for them.

it also help players both Summoners and Shifters.

Also people who prefer hevely customized worlds and charcter might want off the shelfs creatures, is because the creature isn't as overly important to the over all campian comared to the world and the player chacters and major NPCs and thats where they want to invest their time
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:00 PM   #45
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

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*beth makes a private bet with herself on who you've got in mind for this*
Private bets are no fun...



Hey, I for one do my critters. And no, I don't work out how many points they're worth unless I'm doing them as Allies or Alternate Forms or something I really need points for.

Stat block is grand with me, hell I don't even use the stat blocks most of the time. In a regular combat, do I really need to know the IQ of a wolf? Most often, not. And if I do, I've got the hang of animal IQ levels by now enough to guess with an error margin of 1.

The thing is, people that are vocal about the lack of a Bestiary are the people who don't do it themselves (most of the time), and some of the people who do wouldn't mind a Bestiary too. So the impression might come across that "nobody" does their beasties themselves. In my personal experience across gaming tables (not that many, true) and my own group is that yeah, we do our stuff most of the time.

I'd probably buy GURPS Bestiary, it'd probably get a lot of use if it became available, but there's no aching need for it to become available.

And laziness sells.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:52 PM   #46
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

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Stat block is grand with me, hell I don't even use the stat blocks most of the time. In a regular combat, do I really need to know the IQ of a wolf? Most often, not.
No, maybe not, but you would need to know the damage for each attack mode, instead of having to figure it out from being given basic info like "a boar has ST 15, Bite, and uses Slams" then having to look it all up.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:15 AM   #47
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Default Q

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Stat block is grand with me, hell I don't even use the stat blocks most of the time. In a regular combat, do I really need to know the IQ of a wolf? Most often, not. And if I do, I've got the hang of animal IQ levels by now enough to guess with an error margin of 1.
Actually you DO need to know the IQ of a wolf. however the wolf is as an example of why the bestiary is important, because you already know how smart a wolf is, so the wolf is one of the entries that give meaning to the IQ stat for animals because you know what it means because you know how smart a wolf really is. but because you have that entry you know what a Worg is like by comparing them.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:34 AM   #48
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

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No, maybe not, but you would need to know the damage for each attack mode, instead of having to figure it out from being given basic info like "a boar has ST 15, Bite, and uses Slams" then having to look it all up.
I might not have expressed myself clearly. What you stated above is in the stat block. And I was saying that stat blocks suffice for most purposes. However that with some frequency I didn't even use the stat blocks - not that they're not useful - because parts of it were not particularly relevant.

Mind you, it's probably because animals aren't at all common as foes in my games. 99% of the time the foes are humans or something else. Supernatural "animals" are there, but then I can be almost as arbitrary as I like, since there's not so much worrying about realism with unreal creatures.

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Actually you DO need to know the IQ of a wolf. however the wolf is as an example of why the bestiary is important, because you already know how smart a wolf is, so the wolf is one of the entries that give meaning to the IQ stat for animals because you know what it means because you know how smart a wolf really is. but because you have that entry you know what a Worg is like by comparing them.
Again, I came across wrong. I said I don't need to know it most of the time. I meant to say that I don't need to recall or look up all the stats in the stat block in order to play out a simple combat. I do need to know the stats for creatures at one point, or at least some creature like it, in order to build my knowledge and references from which to "eyeball" things.

In any case, I'm not saying we don't need stats at all. I'm just saying that if I had to choose between a book with 200 of the most common animals and 70 fully stated animals with point costs, worked out advantages and disadvantages, descriptions of behaviour and whatnot... I'd probably find the first more useful. But YMMV for sure. And I'm talking strictly about realistic animals I can look up, not about monsters and fantastic beasts.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:15 PM   #49
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

Personally I do not see the big deal here.

I mostly use the stat blocks for the bestiary for Hunting or Animal Taming ect. I even base my more Unique animals off some of the base animals, Such as My Drezalian Riding Cats
Krevalic Riding Raptors
ect.

As for transforming them into GURPS 4th ed.. I can even get point costs, I just use the conversion rules and GCA with the Biotech and all other relevant loads.

Yes I even have unicorns that teleport through plants..

in essence yes I would love to see the stat blocks and it is more an matter of Data entry than much else. I fail to see what is so hard about that.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:53 PM   #50
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Default Re: GURPS Bestiary - 4th ed.

One potential use for a Bestiary is the possibility of playing an animal. Long-time GURPS fans will remember a 3e supplement called Bunnies and Burrows. And when an animal is a potential PC, you need to know more about it than a stat-block will provide.
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