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Old 01-03-2018, 05:30 AM   #1
Refplace
 
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Default Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

Affliction hasnt been brought up in awhile but in the past various suggestions have been made regarding the extra level cost.
I have decided that changing that to 3 or 4 points as Kromm once suggested he would consider still has problems and the Transformation Attack option he also threw out to be too complicated.

So my proposal is a simple enhancement and I am looking for feedback.
+50% is the same value as Armor Divisor and Increasing Will for a Malediction based attack. It seems pretty fair to me on comparison.
+100% has the benefit of making extra levels to lower Resistance cost exactly the same as an unmodified Affliction (assuming normal not multiplicative modifiers). Keeping it the same might be good but compared to raising Will or dealing with DR it feels pretty pricey.
Regarding Malediction, lowering their Resistance IS better than raising your Will in some cases due to the Rule of 16.
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

It has the problem of making an affliction to do something minor (but difficult to resist) being overly expensive (which is already an issue). Really, "what the affliction does" and "how it works" need to be separate and multiplicative, I'd probably change Affliction so 'what it does' changes the base cost, and then you apply enhancements and limitations to affect resistance, armor, etc.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
It has the problem of making an affliction to do something minor (but difficult to resist) being overly expensive (which is already an issue). Really, "what the affliction does" and "how it works" need to be separate and multiplicative, I'd probably change Affliction so 'what it does' changes the base cost, and then you apply enhancements and limitations to affect resistance, armor, etc.
Neither of those suggestions increase the cost though, +50% on a base 10 point ability is +5 points, +100% is +10 points so half cost or the same cost respectively.
Changing the base cost instead of enhancements for the effect, then applying enhancements for range, resistance, etc would very like;y increase costs overall and probably significantly.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Changing the base cost instead of enhancements for the effect, then applying enhancements for range, resistance, etc would very like;y increase costs overall and probably significantly.
I'm not sure about that, actually. Right now, the biggest inflator of Affliction costs is that darned leveled construction to make it harder to resist. If you make "Hard to Resist" a cheaper enhancement (bringing it in line with the Resistible limitation would suggest that +1 to resist would be +5% or +10%), then you might well manage many Afflictions for fairly close to their existing prices.

Offhand, I'd say that disadvantages could be worth half their base value as Afflictions, while advantages and attributes would have to be worth their full base value. Various irritating and incapcitating conditions would convert their enhancement value into point value by dividing by 10, so Coma, which is normally +250%, would work out at 25 points base cost. Some of the lower-level ones would have to be boosted, though - I don't think adding a stun affliction should be worth only 1 point!
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Changing the base cost instead of enhancements for the effect, then applying enhancements for range, resistance, etc would very like;y increase costs overall and probably significantly.
Depends on how you set the base cost.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I'm not sure about that, actually. Right now, the biggest inflator of Affliction costs is that darned leveled construction to make it harder to resist. If you make "Hard to Resist" a cheaper enhancement (bringing it in line with the Resistible limitation would suggest that +1 to resist would be +5% or +10%), then you might well manage many Afflictions for fairly close to their existing prices.
Agreed on that leveled reduction bit, and its the biggest complaint I hear about Affliction. Almost never see anyone take more than one level.
That is the bit I'm hoping to change here.
The +10% enhancement your suggesting would mean 1 point per -1 to Resist, way too cheap.
I think 5 points is fair but 10 points I can live with. Its when enhancements bump it up, such as the 20 and 30 point range I have a real problem with the current setup.

Changing the per level cost as Anthony and others suggest can make a hard to resist stun Affliction too cheap (few or no enhancements) but say a Malediction based Daze too expensive and the player opting to raise Will instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

Offhand, I'd say that disadvantages could be worth half their base value as Afflictions, while advantages and attributes would have to be worth their full base value. Various irritating and incapcitating conditions would convert their enhancement value into point value by dividing by 10, so Coma, which is normally +250%, would work out at 25 points base cost. Some of the lower-level ones would have to be boosted, though - I don't think adding a stun affliction should be worth only 1 point!
Sorry, I dont understand how this addresses the leveled cost issue.

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Depends on how you set the base cost.
Whether the cost per level is 1 or 20 changes when it is too cheap or too expensive to bother buying multiple levels of Affliction.
My problem with that is it makes figuring that out harder than I think it needs to be and I think there wil be a munchkinney sweatspot for say stun but no value in more powerful afflictions.
Another fix would be saying enhancements dont apply to the per level cost, but the +100% enhancement has the same effect and is closer to RAW.
At that point all we did was create a new enhancement.
Also its simple, set a fair cost, match the enhancement to that % and you always have the same cost regardless of any other enhancements.
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Last edited by Refplace; 01-03-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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The +10% enhancement your suggesting would mean 1 point per -1 to Resist, way too cheap.
Well, again, compare it to the Resitible limitation. Say you put that on a Fatigue attack. That initially puts it at HT-5 to resist, and keeps it at 10 points. Then, effectively every +2 to the roll to resist gives you 1 point. So, I'd argue, that's kinda parallel. It shouldn't cost significantly more points to make an already-resistible attack harder to resist than it does to increase the resistance on an attack you're making resistible. I'd say that, if you're afflicting something that's really worth only 10 points, +1 point per -1 to resist it does seem fair.

Quote:
Sorry, I dont understand how this addresses the leveled cost issue.
Apologies, I was getting into the discussion Anthony started, about making Affliction have different base costs based on effect. If you'd rather not have that discussion in this thread, fair enough. I'll start a new one.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
It has the problem of making an affliction to do something minor (but difficult to resist) being overly expensive (which is already an issue). Really, "what the affliction does" and "how it works" need to be separate and multiplicative, I'd probably change Affliction so 'what it does' changes the base cost, and then you apply enhancements and limitations to affect resistance, armor, etc.
Notably this is how Innate Attack works.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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Notably this is how Innate Attack works.
A good starting place for this is probably the modifiers already present in the book. Frex, Heart Attack (+300%) Affliction would cost 40 pts, base.

How would you price secondary afflictions? -80% limitation, x1/5 cost, or Easily Resisted, +5, -25% (??? Idhmbwm).
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Affliction Levels, proposed house rule

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A good starting place for this is probably the modifiers already present in the book. Frex, Heart Attack (+300%) Affliction would cost 40 pts, base.
This is of course the problem with this approach that was suggested upthread. A Heart Attack Affliction might legitimately be worth 40 points, but Heart Attack HT-1 probably isn't at 80.
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