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Old 09-30-2017, 05:22 AM   #1
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default rotes in M:tA

I've thought of a possible rote for Mage: The Ascension that I may want to use in play. I'd like to see what other Mage players think of my analysis of it. From time to time I may think of further rotes for which I want the same thing; so I'm going to make this a general topic. (For that matter, other people who play M:tA are welcome to contribute their rotes.)

The Mentor of one of the PCs is her great-grandmother. She (the Mentor) has Correspondence 2 and Arete 6. If she wants to have a look in at the PC, she can use Correspondence 2 to open a window in space through which she may look and listen. This is not level 1, but it appears to be a form of sensory magic, so I think the rules for that can be applied; it may be coincidental but will sometimes be vulgar without witnesses. So that's difficulty 5 or 6. If she uses her focus (a plumb bob and a map), the Mentor can lower this to 4 or 5, and with six dice, she expects 3.6 or 3.0 successes, more than enough to reach a blood relation or indeed any disciple.

Now, suppose the Mentor wants a two-way conversation? Extending a sensory magic to another person adds +1 to the difficulty. Normally the person would have to be within sensory range, but Correspondence 2 lets you extend your sensory range to remote places, and indeed the roll I just described does precisely that. Two people staring into the air and talking to each other will definitely be noticeable, so I think this is vulgar without witnesses (if they do it in private), which raises the difficulty back to 6, allowing an expected 2.4 successes, still enough to reach any disciple. If there are witnesses, it's 1.8 successes, which will still usually work.

So at appointed times, Moon goes into her private room, and her Mentor first casts the easier rote to get a look at her, and then casts the harder one to let them talk to each other. If this isn't a dramatic situation, I would allow just making the harder roll. In emergencies the Mentor may attempt to break in, perhaps just to say, "Moon! Moon!" and wait for Moon to find a private place for conversation; this will usually work, and spending one Willpower will let it work almost all the time (2.8 expected successes). Or she could just speak to Moon and let Moon disguise her responses as ordinary conversation with a Wits+Subterfuge roll (6 dice against difficulty 6, 2.4 expected successes).
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Old 09-30-2017, 07:09 AM   #2
johndallman
 
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

That looks pretty plausible to me as the kind of thing that ought to happen in a M:tA game. Almost all the play I've done has been GURPS: M:tA, so I can't speak to the calculations.

A related idea would be for the Mentor to use some effect that's thoroughly non-obvious to attract the attention of the person she wants to speak to. For example, a ring they're wearing warms or cools a little.
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Old 09-30-2017, 07:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

Correspondence 3 allows scanning of multiple locations and teleporting, so that's more in line than Correspondence 2 with an effect allowing you to see and communicate with someone at distance.

I'd probably add in Mind 2 or 3 to make it possible to send thoughts or communicate, though forces 2 could manipulate sound or light to produce images.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:54 PM   #4
whswhs
 
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

Quote:
Originally Posted by baakyocalder View Post
Correspondence 3 allows scanning of multiple locations and teleporting, so that's more in line than Correspondence 2 with an effect allowing you to see and communicate with someone at distance.

I'd probably add in Mind 2 or 3 to make it possible to send thoughts or communicate, though forces 2 could manipulate sound or light to produce images.
What do you think you can do with just Correspondence 2? Does it let you see the face of a person in a distant place? Or do you need Forces 2 to see anything?
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Old 10-01-2017, 03:15 AM   #5
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

Why would remote viewing ever be vulgar without withnesses? A person standing next to you as you cast your thing would not consider you to be doing anything impossible. (What you do with the data you get after that is your own business.)

Now, sharing a view with a non-mage would indeed be vulgar (with said witness), sure. But getting a picture and giving someone a picture are two different things even if they can be bundled into a single spell.
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Old 10-01-2017, 03:18 AM   #6
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
What do you think you can do with just Correspondence 2? Does it let you see the face of a person in a distant place? Or do you need Forces 2 to see anything?
My experience is more Revised-oriented, but AFAIK Corr2 alone (without other spheres) provides sensory capability, not affecting capability. (Except maybe some unweavings.)
Of course, sensory capability, especially given how good sensory capabilities provided by Corr1 are, is already a very powerful thing. You don't get to do spectral analysis, but you can perceive the whole layout of space itself, knowing every position and shape of everything in a room or (with more effort) a city block, ignore darkness etc.
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Old 10-01-2017, 08:08 AM   #7
whswhs
 
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
My experience is more Revised-oriented, but AFAIK Corr2 alone (without other spheres) provides sensory capability, not affecting capability. (Except maybe some unweavings.)
Yes, that's how I read it. But "sensory capability" includes the ability to see a person, and probably to hear what they're saying. And we can achieve communication that way, without resorting to telepathy or the like. In fact senses-based communication is the only thing the unawakened use!
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Old 05-06-2018, 06:57 AM   #8
Praxian
 
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Default Re: rotes in M:tA

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I've thought of a possible rote for Mage: The Ascension that I may want to use in play. I'd like to see what other Mage players think of my analysis of it. From time to time I may think of further rotes for which I want the same thing; so I'm going to make this a general topic. (For that matter, other people who play M:tA are welcome to contribute their rotes.)

The Mentor of one of the PCs is her great-grandmother. She (the Mentor) has Correspondence 2 and Arete 6. If she wants to have a look in at the PC, she can use Correspondence 2 to open a window in space through which she may look and listen. This is not level 1, but it appears to be a form of sensory magic, so I think the rules for that can be applied; it may be coincidental but will sometimes be vulgar without witnesses. So that's difficulty 5 or 6. If she uses her focus (a plumb bob and a map), the Mentor can lower this to 4 or 5, and with six dice, she expects 3.6 or 3.0 successes, more than enough to reach a blood relation or indeed any disciple.

Now, suppose the Mentor wants a two-way conversation? Extending a sensory magic to another person adds +1 to the difficulty. Normally the person would have to be within sensory range, but Correspondence 2 lets you extend your sensory range to remote places, and indeed the roll I just described does precisely that. Two people staring into the air and talking to each other will definitely be noticeable, so I think this is vulgar without witnesses (if they do it in private), which raises the difficulty back to 6, allowing an expected 2.4 successes, still enough to reach any disciple. If there are witnesses, it's 1.8 successes, which will still usually work.

So at appointed times, Moon goes into her private room, and her Mentor first casts the easier rote to get a look at her, and then casts the harder one to let them talk to each other. If this isn't a dramatic situation, I would allow just making the harder roll. In emergencies the Mentor may attempt to break in, perhaps just to say, "Moon! Moon!" and wait for Moon to find a private place for conversation; this will usually work, and spending one Willpower will let it work almost all the time (2.8 expected successes). Or she could just speak to Moon and let Moon disguise her responses as ordinary conversation with a Wits+Subterfuge roll (6 dice against difficulty 6, 2.4 expected successes).
Correspondence level 2 will take care of 100% of the communication that you're wanting to do. Correspondence by itself, IS vulgar. What it's doing is opening a house window next to the grandmothers protege, without the house attached to the window. There's a specific rote which is Correspondence 2 and Mind 2 (I'd have to look up the name), but this makes it -not- necessarily paradoxical because now the window is in the Grandmothers mind. Consequently with Correspondence 2 and Mind 3, you could do open Telepathic communications over any level of range modifiers and no one would be any wiser for it.

Another alternative is Correspondence 2 and Forces 2. This way would also be non-paradoxical as long as observation is the only thing happening. In this case, the "Window" is there, but the use of Forces hides the window on the other side so no one can see it. Could even block sound from coming out if you wanted, but then you'd have to have Grandma come through the window a smidge to talk, or simply do another "Forces 2" roll to be adjust it so sound came out.

Modern days, everyone has a cellphone on them... Correspondence 2 and Forces 2 for the phone to ring (yes, even if it doesn't have power) and then the "Sound" from the conversation comes out the phone - non-paradoxical.
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