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Old 09-24-2017, 08:14 PM   #1
evileeyore
 
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Default [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

Why are these both -10 points when one is far more penalizing than the other?
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Why are these both -10 points when one is far more penalizing than the other?
What qualities would each group be stereotyped with by the stigmatizer?

That is not an answer, it is just a tentative probe.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

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What qualities would each group be stereotyped with by the stigmatizer?
One gives a -2 to Reaction rolls from anyone not of their people; the other gives a -2 to Reactions and -4 to skills with non-Savages (presumably Social Skills) and has them denied entry to town on a roll of 6 or less.
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

I'm guessing minority is "people we don't trust" and savage is "person - sort of/maybe - prone to violence, casual theft and crapping in the street". Minorities are a known - if disliked - quantity whereas a savage could do almost anything and is probably dangerous. Hence the bigger penalties.
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Old 09-25-2017, 09:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

Emphasis added by me:
Minority Group: ‑2 on all reaction rolls.*

Savage: -2 on reaction rolls and -4 on skill rolls when buying or selling goods, finding backers, or engaging in similar negotiations, and a 6 or less chance of being denied entry to town.*

* Except from others of your own kind, in both cases.
In GURPS terms, Minority Group amounts to Reputation -2 all the time, while Savage amounts to Reputation -2 among potential business partners, plus Incompetence at business, plus an added bit about not being welcome in town.

Minority Group means you're disliked because while you're from a true culture, it's one nobody likes because it's seen as too distant, different, and/or dangerous. Savage means you're regarded as belonging to a barely sapient monster race that doesn't have a culture. In the former case, cultural contrasts lead to problems just about everywhere, not just in business; even as a mercenary, you're not trusted because maybe you're really an advance barbarian scout spying on the state that hired you. In the latter, you're seen largely as a beast, not savvy enough to be trusted around civilized stuff like contracts and deals, but nobody is going to mind much if – like a guard animal or a warhorse – you're hanging around as useful muscle.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
In the latter, you're seen largely as a beast, not savvy enough to be trusted around civilized stuff like contracts and deals, but nobody is going to mind much if – like a guard animal or a warhorse – you're hanging around as useful muscle.
There's also likely to be small positive reactions with things traditionally associated with "savages" - wrangling wild animals/monster, exploring dangerous wilderness areas, removing other "savages"
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Emphasis added by me:[INDENT][INDENT][INDENT]Minority Group: ‑2 on all reaction rolls.*
Huh. Huh.

/checks books agian.

Yup, i missed that.

Quote:
Savage: -2 on reaction rolls and -4 on skill rolls when buying or selling goods, finding backers, or engaging in similar negotiations, and a 6 or less chance of being denied entry to town.*
Okay. So if I read the DFRPG version (which is written differently*) this way it makes it equitable.

Thanks!


This issue just cropped up for me after reading the DFRPG version of Savage which says "...you have penalties when negotiating in or out of the dungeon" which to me goes hand in hand with "but... all social situations are a negotiation!11!"

If I instead read it as "business transactions" explicitly buying and selling, then it comes into line. I'd probably lump "negotiations to avoid fighting" into that, it seems appropriate after all.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Emphasis added by me:
Minority Group: ‑2 on all reaction rolls.*

Savage: -2 on reaction rolls and -4 on skill rolls when buying or selling goods, finding backers, or engaging in similar negotiations, and a 6 or less chance of being denied entry to town.*

* Except from others of your own kind, in both cases.
This is unfortunate phrasing, as it is not clear whether "when buying or selling goods..." limits the -2 to reaction rolls (blame English not having strong rules for operator precedence).
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Old 09-25-2017, 09:09 AM   #9
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Default Re: [DF, DFRPG] Social Stigma - Savage versus Minority

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
Hence the bigger penalties.
Which normally necessitates a proportaional cost.

What I'm questioning in this thread that they are both -10 points.
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