Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-25-2017, 05:24 PM   #1
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Minor Tweeks to Grappling Rules

I was wondering what everyone thought about three tweaks to the grappling rules in basic and MA that I am considering. I do have technical grappling and would like to use it, but I have a campaign with 6 newish players and it would be too confusing and bog things down. That said, some of the stuff in Technical Grappling, like limb grapples affecting the whole body at 1/2 and cp being useful for targeting hit locations with strikes would be very useful. This is a LT Monster Hunters game and increased ability to hit things like the heart or eyes will be very useful. So here are my three house rules:

1) Grappling any hit location penalizes DX by -4 for that location and -2 for every other location.

2) Once a target is grappled, penalties to target any hit location with a strike are halved, round up (as per penalties to grapple hit locations).

3) Institute the Pass Limb rule on pg 24-25 of Technical Grappling except that instead of maintaining CP, a success results in being able to free one limb while maintaining full ST score for ST based affects and any bonuses you had accumulated against attempts to break free (like +5 for using 2 hands and +4 for an arm lock).

I am trying to keep it simple while also making grappling more attractive and giving the players a way to target difficult hit locations that is tactically more interesting.

What do you think, workable and balanced?
phayman53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 06:51 PM   #2
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Minor Tweeks to Grappling Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
I was wondering what everyone thought about three tweaks to the grappling rules in basic and MA that I am considering. I do have technical grappling and would like to use it, but I have a campaign with 6 newish players and it would be too confusing and bog things down. That said, some of the stuff in Technical Grappling, like limb grapples affecting the whole body at 1/2 and cp being useful for targeting hit locations with strikes would be very useful. This is a LT Monster Hunters game and increased ability to hit things like the heart or eyes will be very useful. So here are my three house rules:

1) Grappling any hit location penalizes DX by -4 for that location and -2 for every other location.

2) Once a target is grappled, penalties to target any hit location with a strike are halved, round up (as per penalties to grapple hit locations).

3) Institute the Pass Limb rule on pg 24-25 of Technical Grappling except that instead of maintaining CP, a success results in being able to free one limb while maintaining full ST score for ST based affects and any bonuses you had accumulated against attempts to break free (like +5 for using 2 hands and +4 for an arm lock).

I am trying to keep it simple while also making grappling more attractive and giving the players a way to target difficult hit locations that is tactically more interesting.

What do you think, workable and balanced?
I like 'em.

Pass Limb could also be used to add a second location to the list of those at -4. So you could (say) grapple the torso (-4) and limbs are -2 . . . but if you pass limb, you can either free one of your own limbs, OR you can (say) have the torso and right arm at -4, and the rest at -2. One limb per attack. So eventually you could have the arms, torso, and legs (cradle position) if you're willing to spend the attacks. That'd be the equivalent of a Pin.

the bit about half penalties on strikes by the grappler seems a fair trade for "I spend CP to lower hit location penalties" and incentivizes the grapple/strike combo, which is to the good.

Another thing you could do is allow two levels of grappled. So the first is -4 to the grappled location, the second is -8.
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 07:29 PM   #3
DeathDaisy
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
Default Re: Minor Tweeks to Grappling Rules

I have for some time now thought that MA superseded the "-4 DX for the grappled limb only" with a blanket -4 DX and the grappled limb, if other than the torso, being unusable.

Going back and re-reading it, I might have made a hen of a feather; MA119 under Pain and Breaking Free says "Attacks are at -4 while grappled and can’t involve any body part or weapon that your foe is restraining." and the rest of the paragraph makes some suggestions that could be interpreted that way too.

It seems I inferred a whole new ruleset from that passage. But we've been using that rule (apparently a house rule as it turns out) for a while now, and it's been working pretty well, making grappling attractive to use and dangerous to be on the receiving end of. Food for thought?
DeathDaisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 08:42 PM   #4
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Minor Tweeks to Grappling Rules

I'm going to comment more extensively (with proper credit) on these on ye olde blogge.

And here they are:

Less-Technical Grappling
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.

Last edited by DouglasCole; 04-26-2017 at 10:48 AM.
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 11:32 AM   #5
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: Minor Tweeks to Grappling Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I'm going to comment more extensively (with proper credit) on these on ye olde blogge.

And here they are:

Less-Technical Grappling
Cool! I'm glad I could contribute to your quest for better grappling rules of various levels of complexity (especially since I am indebted, in large part, to you for appreciated grappling to the level I do now). I like your suggestions, though I don't think I'll implement them all with my newbees. But I especially like your expansion of pass limb and the ability to grapple again for more penalties.

One question: since grappling the torso gives -4 to DX for actions involving the torso, but -2 to DX for actions involving the arms and legs only (and head, I guess), which actions with the arms do not involve the torso? Most weapons strikes, even one handed, require the core, so should those suffer the whole -4 to DX? What about parries and blocks? I think it would be safe to only penalize grapple attempts by -2 since grabbing is not the same as striking hard. Thanks!

Last edited by phayman53; 04-26-2017 at 11:42 AM.
phayman53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 11:40 AM   #6
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Minor Tweeks to Grappling Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
Cool! I'm glad I could contribute to your quest for better grappling rules of various levels of complexity. I like your suggestions, though I don't think I'll implement them all with my newbees. But I especially like your expansion of pass limb and the ability to grapple again for more penalties.

One question: since grappling the torso gives -4 to DX for actions involving the torso, but -2 to DX for actions involving the arms and legs only (and head, I guess), which actions with the arms do not involve the torso. Most weapons strikes, even one handed, require the core, so should those suffer the whole -4 to DX? What about parries and blocks? I think it would be safe to only penalize grapple attempts by -2 since grabbing is not the same as striking hard. Thanks!
For simplicity, I'd simply carry the overall penalty as -4 to DX, -2 to Parry/Block, and -1 to Dodge. While of course it's hard to escape the "it all comes from the core!" basic truth, from a game perspective, it's easier to just say "penalties cover everything, specific locations on limbs disallow actions with that limb."

I like the idea of penalizing grappling less, if for no other reason than to encourage folks to grapple back to break free, which is the most common response (along with grabbing the other guy).
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
grappling, house rules

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.