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Old 09-26-2013, 08:10 AM   #1
Yako
 
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Default Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

As my gaming group includes a telekinetic character, we did have the situation, several times, where an enemy is lifted into the air and the rest of the group uses ranged weapons on said foe.

The question is, what exactly does being lifted into the air by telekinesis count as?

For starters, of course anyone manipulated telekinetically is grappled, but where does it go from there?

1. Is he considered grappled and now, being in the air, as having very bad footing, none, to thus lower any dodge or other defence?
If so, how high should that penalty be?

2. Should it be treated as a form of pin, meaning, character establishes control first and then lifts the opponent up in the next manoeuvre by making a suitable contest of strength / skill / etc?
If so, as it takes 1, 2 or four seconds to lift an object depending on the weight and your strength, when would he be effectively pinned?

3. Alternatively, would it be able to "pin", effectively completely immobilize someone AFTER you levitated him?
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:12 AM   #2
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

It's no different from a rather large character physically lifting him up, except that he can't strike his attacker to break free. And since he's being held up, it would be easier to just turn him around and give him 0 defense against attacks.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

The big question is, is it overpowered? If it is, then work out how you can weaken it while respecting the rules, or increase its point cost and explain this to the player. Or simply put the PCs in situations where it doesn't work for in-game reasons. If the PC can only tele-pin one person at a time, then the enemies are going to figure this out and send three guys and tell them to shoot the psychic one first.

It's going to be boring for everyone if every combat encounter turns into pinata fight.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

Just remember that a telekinetic grapple still allows the contest of the victim's ST vs the TK to break free.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:57 PM   #5
Kromm
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Default Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

Telekinesis is just a grapple at a distance. It requires a roll to hit (it doesn't "just work"), it allows an active defense, and it permits attempts to break free. It has to win all the usual close-combat Contests to achieve a takedown or a pin, or even to turn someone around (per Martial Arts, p. 118, that's a Quick Contest); none of that stuff is automatic. The effects on Dodge are the usual -1 for being grappled (see Martial Arts, p. 121) – and if you have enough TK to lift the victim, he can't get bonuses for retreating or Acrobatic Dodge. Telekinesis is in no way an "I win" button; mostly, it's a "you can't run away until you break free" button.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Telekinesis...allows an active defense...
Really?

*goes and reads*

Okay yeah, targets can defend...at -4!

Looking at B 394 it looks like they can only dodge...or if they make a Hearing-2 roll they can block or parry... o_O

Does Telekinesis make a sound the way a normal attack does?

If it does can one parry or block it? If it doesn't is it impossible to parry or block?
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:24 PM   #7
Yako
 
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Default Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Telekinesis is just a grapple at a distance. It requires a roll to hit (it doesn't "just work"), it allows an active defense, and it permits attempts to break free. It has to win all the usual close-combat Contests to achieve a takedown or a pin, or even to turn someone around (per Martial Arts, p. 118, that's a Quick Contest); none of that stuff is automatic. The effects on Dodge are the usual -1 for being grappled (see Martial Arts, p. 121) – and if you have enough TK to lift the victim, he can't get bonuses for retreating or Acrobatic Dodge. Telekinesis is in no way an "I win" button; mostly, it's a "you can't run away until you break free" button.
But, any of those restrictions already do apply with any grapple, telekinetic or not, don't they?
According to Basic, you definitely cannot retreat if you are grappled and an acrobatic dodge should not be possible either.

Of course lifting someone up should not be an easy "I win" button, but it seriously violates the suspension of disbelief, mine and my players, if it is not affecting someone's defensive abilities AT ALL.

In the situation, I applied a malus akin to lying down since it seemed like a good fit for an equally disadvantageous situation, but I did want to know if there is anything aside from the rather unhelpful section about lifting people which is at least 50% redundant by the basic rules as stated before.

As fictional portrayals of people being lifted into the air usually involved them being more or less helpless, adapting a form of pin for that seemed like a possible fix, as stated.
And since that would be one attack with active defence (to initiate the TK grapple) and a quick contest of ST (for "pinning") with the extra nuisance of needing up to four seconds to lift the person up, it does not seem broken to me, unless grappling someone is considered broken.
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