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Old 04-10-2013, 08:35 PM   #1
PenitentDemon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

I just had the oddest thing happen just now

Someone knew that the lilim in disguise they were talking to was a Lilim without mention of anything explicitly Celestial.

Any idea how to Make things more subtle.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:41 PM   #2
Rocket Man
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Two words: Don't Push.

With a Lilim, it's easy to be too aggressive. After all, they're the classic deal-with-the-devil package ... figure out what they Need, sell it back to 'em and call in the hook. But if you start pushing -- overly curious, overly helpful -- it can be obvious who's on the other end of the line.

Have the Lilim be a friendly girl-next-door. Or shy. Or even someone who needs help out of a bit of trouble, who seems vulnerable. Engage in ordinary conversation and let it go where they will. Most people, in talking with a friendly acquaintance, will mention a thousand minor issues they're having in their life. DON'T immediately jump on it unless it's something relatively small and innocuous that anyone would do (it's probably safe to grab a beer for someone who's just been working six hours in the summer sun), but save up opportunities for later, or look for ways to fulfill their Need behind the scenes.

The subtle Lilim is a long-term worker. Win trust, seem friendly, be helpful in the way a friend's helpful, not in the way a genie is. And unless you want the players to figure it out fast, don't take a Role name that means "Freedom."

One other thing may help. Every so often, I ask my players to give me a list of Needs for their character, from least to most vital, in case they do run into a Tempter or a Gifter. That way, when they do cross paths, I don't have to roll and ask "So, by the way, if you had a CD4 Need, what would it be?"
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:12 AM   #3
Methariel
 
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
Two words: Don't Push.

[much helpful advice]
I'll second that. If you don't want your players to catch on an NPCs Choir or Band, subtlety is the key.

As might be misdirections - not by the GM himself, but in-character. I once sprang an Impudite - of Dark Humor - on them, that was neither suave nor well-dressed. He was rather rough, but apparently fun to hang around with for his - entirely mundane - acquaintances.

In the end, the players settled for him to be either just an irksome mundane or a not too-devoted-to-the-cause Infernal Soldier. One of them wondered for a few moments if he was a weak, but surprisingly social Djinn.

Had they investigated a little more thoroughly, they'd found out that he was fun to hang around with because he made people laugh often. And if they had followed that clue further, they'd found out that they laughed about his silly jokes and pranks. Being rough people themselves, his acquaintances found nothing wrong with some jokes meaning actual bodily harm to other people. (The mutilating "jokes" he did secretly, of course.) That might have given them an inkling to what he really was.

So, they just wondered why he panicked when three of them - whom he knew to be angels - wanted information from him and why he attacked and fought like a literal devil to escape when it appeared they had cornered him. He even managed to do that.

But then the Cherub of War found him.

In hindsight, it might not have been that big a misdirection. But still, it was sufficient.

M.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:44 PM   #4
sir_pudding
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Any idea how to Make things more subtle.
Have them encounter slick charming humans with an agenda every once in a while.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:51 PM   #5
Rocket Man
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Have them encounter slick charming humans with an agenda every once in a while.
Absolutely!

This goes for other Choirs, too. Plenty of people can be fast-talking liars without being Balseraphs, or hyperactive ADD cases without being Ofanim, or smooth and friendly without being a Mercurian OR an Impudite.

Detailed descriptions of a scene help a lot, especially if you routine employ mundane "color" details. That way, you can slip one in that becomes important later. Early in our Madison campaign, an attractive female angel got onto a crowded bus to avoid a rainstorm; in the press, she felt someone cop a feel. She rolled her eyes, figuring it was one more bit of living in a college town ... and only later found out it was a Djinn putting his tag on her.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Have them encounter slick charming humans with an agenda every once in a while.
Just going to echo this one more time. Make sure they meet humans of all stripes -- even including Soldiers, if you want to keep most NPCs in on the War -- or else they'll be trying to figure out "what's this one's Choir/Band?" for everyone they meet.

I had this issue myself, introducing so many demons and angels, and so few humans, that players came to just expect everybody they met was celestial. As part of my own personal mission to change that up and introduce some more surprises, I threw them a Soldier of Hell who was a police officer on a mission where they were told NOT to create any disturbance or injure any humans ... and they killed him with impunity. It was a real learning experience. :)
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:55 AM   #7
PenitentDemon
 
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Curious... any task a Lilim can ask of someone she's trying NOT to burn out on ever doing business with her again, (or who shes just the least bit fond of) other then "Let me cut ahead of you in line" to angels "Destory X pesky demon"
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #8
Jason
 
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Curious... any task a Lilim can ask of someone she's trying NOT to burn out on ever doing business with her again, (or who shes just the least bit fond of) other then "Let me cut ahead of you in line" to angels "Destory X pesky demon"
"I hear [rival Prince] is trying to set up a Tether in the area. I don't want that any more than you do. Any clue about the location?"

"Could I get a wee bit of Essence?"

"I just need enough cash to catch a cab."

"Introduce me to your cute friend!"

"Hold this door open for me for a sec, would you?" (Hopefully not for a bank robbery.)
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:41 PM   #9
robkelk
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Curious... any task a Lilim can ask of someone she's trying NOT to burn out on ever doing business with her again, (or who shes just the least bit fond of) other then "Let me cut ahead of you in line" to angels "Destory X pesky demon"
A few favours requested by the Gifter from my game:

"Think about how much what you just said would have hurt me, if I was human."

"Don't pay me back the ten bucks; give it to somebody who needs it instead."

"I don't care if it's personal! You're a Mercurian! Let the Malakite go fight the demon!"

"Let me stay out late for a change. I need to develop my Role."

"Please let me go to Mom's party!" (she cashed in a Geas/6 for that one, and it kicked off a major plot development)
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:30 AM   #10
tHEhERETIC
 
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Default Re: How to avoid broadcasting Choir/Band

Oh oh oh, I know this one!

Part of the backstory of my PbP is that Ruby the Lilim got Ryuki the libertine/sorcerer on the hook despite his being basically cautious of such things. She just sat too close to him at a bar so he couldn't get anything done. Annoyed the guy. "What will it take to make you go away?" Mind you, he knew she was a demon but not what Band. She slipped him her phone number. "Call me." "Yeah sure, okay, whatever." In his mind, a brushoff. To her, a hook. Very subtle.

On a more PC level he's always trying to guess Choir/Band by behavior. Methariel as Shenmachel played the obvious Seraph, throwing fits when he lied (which was more often than not). Mitchem, also a Seraph, kept quiet. It took months IC for him to figure out that Mitch was not a Mercurian.

(Roundabout these posts you can see the contrast http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...hel#post466022
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