Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran
Yes, but who says that language is absolutely necessary for a sense of self?
I had a dog that created her own hard cider by knocking down and burying apples. She would wait until they fermented and then gorge herself until quite drunk. She would recognize herself in the mirror as well. She knew that just because someone has always been allowed inside when owners are present does not mean that they are part of the pack and can enter at any other time.
We must judge based on observed behavior, and if all means cannot tell the difference between an animal having a "human" trait and one that does not, then I think we should assume they do.
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That way lies Clever Hans.
I didn't say "sense of self"; I said "self-concept." Could you say to your dog, "Tell me how you figured out that trick with the apples?" and have her tell you the story? Could you ask her, "Do you think it's desirable to intoxicate yourself on fermented apples?" and have her discuss the tradeoffs being immediate pleasure and long-term displeasure, or long-term consequences from doing stupid things when drunk? Could you discuss with her whether she was drunk or not, or ask her how often she got drunk?
Bill Stoddard