[hal]

OK, riddle me this...

Unless not in a situation where rigid armor becomes "flexible armor", we wouldn't even be having this discussion right?

If the Damage inflicted normally can NOT progress past the original armor - how are we applying the Skull's inherent DR against damage that normally doesn't even hit the head/skull in the first place?

It is only AFTER the armor is treated as flexible, that the harder armor becomes required to handle what essentially got past the first layer.

GURPS 3e VEHICLE rules even went so far as to treat each layer of armor separately, requiring the effects of the second layer to come into play only after the first layer had been breached.

Put another way? A person takes a given amount of punishment (ie damage) from a swung club. Club impacts upon the helmet, and can't get past the armor DR value, net result: No damage to the head.

Swung club does (and by club, I'm not saying wooden!) 1 point of damage more than the helmet can handle, then, and only then, does the DR of the skull come into play. Club does 2 points more damage than the helmet can handle, the skull is hard pressed to stop the full damage.

Swung club does three points of damage more than the Helment can resist, then three points get through, and the skull, as the last line of defense, stops 2 more damage. Net result - one point gets through.

At no point in time, does the Skull's DR get added to the helmet's DR as one combined value.

Now, lets look at the Blunt Trauma model.

Body is falling downwards - only the HEAD is taking damage, so presumably, the person is falling head first in what amounts to a dive. Real life, this would result in a compacted spine, broken neck (possibly) etc, but for now, lets just look at the GURPS rules shall we?

Which surface hits the ground first - the head, or the helmet? The helmet right? So why are we talking about layered armor where we get to pick and choose which armor takes the brunt of the damage first????

Helmet stops 16 Damage by virtue of its DR 16. Inflicted Damage due to the fall is 15 points. First layer stops ALL of the damage but for the special case of all armor except innate DR is treated as flexible armor. Now, for every 5 points of damage, 1 gets through as Blunt Trauma. In effect? Helm stops the damage, but HEAD still continues forward and impacts against inside of helmet (otherwise, helmet crumples until it hits skull surface, take your pick).

NOW we still have to account for the incoming 3 points of blunt trauma. At this point, the second layer of armor comes into effect - that of the skull's bone structure. Stops 2, leaving 1 point through the skull of the incoming blunt trauma.

And this damage, per the rules is the actual injury damage? No wounding modifiers? Nothing special despite the fact that in real life, such a helmet might keep the skull from caving in, but not result in a snapped neck?

Ohhhhh Kay <shrug>.

In any event - here is another "concept" to wrestle with.

GURPS as written, has this odd concept where incoming damage can be stopped by Damage resistance right?

When you have layered armor - where incoming "damage" must first undergo passing armor before it becomes "injury", what happens when you have damage get stopped entirely by armor, becomes blunt trauma, then has to go through a second layer of armor? Injury can't be stopped by Armor's DR, as injury is what happens AFTER it gets past DR. But with Layers, what gets past the first layer, and must get past the second layer, is by definition, NOT injury, but still damage.

So, I submit that from my perspective, the current rules are not as clear cut nor as "clean" a set of rules as some might have us believe. And while certain individuals have earned the right to be considered to be authorities on the rules (No offense meant to anyone by the by), there will still be times where the rules as written are poorly constructed, or poorly interpreted.

Now, I'm not about to get into a ******* contest either way. I remain unconvinced by RPK's explanation, and will smile remembering that as GM, it is up to me to interpret the rules as best as I can, but also discarding those rules I consider to be poorly writ, or poorly executed. House rules be the name of the game as it were ;)