Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff

Sunrunners_Fire · 07-13-2013, 06:27 AM

Okay. So. I'm toying around with an alternate skills-as-spells system for a low-tech fantasy setting that a conversation with my wife inspired. I don't know if I'm actually going to do anything with it or even detail the setting in more than the broadest strokes, but ... Riffing off the stuff in this thread and some other stuff I've been noodling about with for years ...

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The basics are really simple. Mages cast spells by learning and using special skills. Allow me to expand that a bit: Mages (people with the magery talent) cast spells (modified or unmodified advantages) by learning and using special skills (dedicated to each specific ability they know how to use). It redefines a few terms. ;)

Magery isn't a power talent, it doesn't come in levels starting with zero and it doesn't include a pseudo-detect magic ability. It is merely a large talent that costs [15 per level] due to the number of skills (13+) it can benefit and it provides the necessary oomph to cast spells as an alternate benefit instead of the normal reaction bonus. It has four levels just like all the other talents do. It happens to be both a trainable advantage as well as a naturally occurring one; it can be self-taught.
Spells are cinematic skills that range in difficulty from Easy to Very Hard, and aren't necessarily IQ-based skills either. The difficulty of a spell-skill is determined by how many points it provides to purchase advantages with. An Easy spell-skill gives 10 points, an Average spell-skill gives 15 points, a Hard spell-skill gives 25 points and a Very Hard spell-skill gives 45 points. Greater (and theoretical!) levels of difficulty may exist with a correspondingly greater point budget.
- The advantage enabled by the spell-skill must cost no more than the spell-skill's budget allows. The cost of an ability is calculated by taking the base cost of the desired advantage and adding enhancements as per normal; adding limitations does not reduce this cost. You do not purchase the advantage; its' cost is calculated merely so that we can determine what skill difficulty to assign the spell that casts it.
- Spell-skills have no default value. Spell-techniques do.
Spell-skills can have techniques. Spell-techniques allow for adding a desirable enhancement or limitation to the spell's advantage in a manner that don't impact its' budget cost and thereby in a manner that doesn't affect its' skill difficulty.
- Enhancement Techniques default to their parent spell-skill at the greater of -2 or one-tenth the enhancement value. A spell-technique for Reduced Fatigue Cost 1 defaults to its' parent spell at -2. A spell-technique for Incendiary also defaults to its' parent spell at -2. A spell-technique for Malediction (-1/yard) defaults to its' parent spell at -10.
- Limitation Techniques also default to their parent spell-skill at the greater of -2 or one-tenth of the enhancement value. A -5% limitation defaults at -2, a -15% limitation defaults at -2, a -50% limitation defaults at -5, etc.
- Technique Penalties can be offset by spending fatigue points, removing up to -2 in penalties for every 1 fatigue point spent. This can never result in a bonus!
Spells cost fatigue points to cast. 2 of them. This can be reduced by adding the Reduced Fatigue Cost to the base advantage via enhancement (which impacts point budget) or via technique. Reduced Fatigue Cost can only be applied as an enhancement on the base advantage when the base advantage is something that is normally always on; all other advantages may only have Reduced Fatigue Cost applied via spell-technique.
Spell casting is a reflexive free action. Using the ability granted by the spell follows the normal rules; advantages that are normally always on simply flicker on, advantages that require a maneuver continue to require that maneuver, etc. You can "power block", "power parry" and "power dodge" with spells if the base advantage is appropriate to doing so.
Spell-skills can be upgraded in difficulty, and thereby point budget, if the underlying advantage is a leveled trait. This requires the character to spend the difference between their already invested points in the spell and the cost of purchasing the spell at the higher difficulty at the same relative skill level. If you know a spell as an easy skill at attribute+4 and wish to upgrade it to being an average skill, you must pay the difference in cost between attribute+4/easy and attribute+4/average. The increased point budget is usable only to purchase additional levels of the base advantage.
Power can compensate for a lack of skill. When casting a spell, spending extra fatigue gives a +1 bonus to the skill for every 1 fatigue spent for a single roll.

Fluff-wise, a spell is said to be for apprentices (easy spells), journeyman (average spells), masters (hard spells) and adepts (very hard spells). In practice, an apprentice is as capable of learning an adept-grade spell as it is capable of learning an apprentice-grade spell; they may have difficulty finding someone willing to teach them though ...

Some examples would probably help. Lets see ...

Energy Reserve (IQ/Easy)
- Energy Reserve (Magic) 2 (Reduced Fatigue Cost 2, +40%) [9]
The apprentice version of Energy Reserve isn't especially useful, but its' better than nothing. Most apprentices are interested in upgrading this spell at the earliest opportunity. It costs no fatigue to cast and provides access to a pool of additional energy; said pool is rather limited in capacity but at least it recharges quickly! Energy Reserve recharges, active or not, at the normal rate of 1 point every 10 minutes. It is accessible for the duration of one minute.

Detect Magic (IQ/Easy)
- Detect (Magic) [10]
The apprentice version of Detect Magic costs 2 fatigue and allows the mage to make Sense rolls in order to detect the presence or absence of magic in an area, the nearest significant source and a rough estimation on the quantity. Once detected, an IQ roll may be made in order to analyize the magic. It has a duration of one minute.

Fire Bolt (DX/Easy)
- Burning Attack (Incendiary, +10%; Partial Dice (Per Level; +6), *1.8) [10]
The apprentice version of Fire Bolt creates a magical missile that does 6 bu inc damage to the target if they make a successful innate attack (projectile) skill roll to hit said target and the target doesn't otherwise defend themselves. It has a 10/100 range, an acc of 3, rof of 1 and rcl of 1.

No Cost (Fire Bolt) (Tech/H)
- Reduced Fatigue Cost 2, +40%
- Defaults to Fire Bolt at -4, Can be no higher than Fire Bolt.

Rapid Fire (Fire Bolt) (Tech/H)
- Rapid Fire (RoF 3), +50%
- Defaults to Fire Bolt at -5, Can be no higher than Fire Bolt.

Ghost Fire (Fire Bolt) (Tech/H)
- No Wounding, -50%
- Defaults to Fire Bolt at -5, Can be no higher than Fire Bolt.

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Given the above, with the note that it hasn't been playtested yet ... break it for me? If you would be so kind?

07-13-2013, 06:27 AM	#1
Sunrunners_Fire Join Date: Mar 2010	Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff Okay. So. I'm toying around with an alternate skills-as-spells system for a low-tech fantasy setting that a conversation with my wife inspired. I don't know if I'm actually going to do anything with it or even detail the setting in more than the broadest strokes, but ... Riffing off the stuff in this thread and some other stuff I've been noodling about with for years ... - - - - - - - - - - The basics are really simple. Mages cast spells by learning and using special skills. Allow me to expand that a bit: Mages (people with the magery talent) cast spells (modified or unmodified advantages) by learning and using special skills (dedicated to each specific ability they know how to use). It redefines a few terms. ;) Magery isn't a power talent, it doesn't come in levels starting with zero and it doesn't include a pseudo-detect magic ability. It is merely a large talent that costs [15 per level] due to the number of skills (13+) it can benefit and it provides the necessary oomph to cast spells as an alternate benefit instead of the normal reaction bonus. It has four levels just like all the other talents do. It happens to be both a trainable advantage as well as a naturally occurring one; it can be self-taught. Spells are cinematic skills that range in difficulty from Easy to Very Hard, and aren't necessarily IQ-based skills either. The difficulty of a spell-skill is determined by how many points it provides to purchase advantages with. An Easy spell-skill gives 10 points, an Average spell-skill gives 15 points, a Hard spell-skill gives 25 points and a Very Hard spell-skill gives 45 points. Greater (and theoretical!) levels of difficulty may exist with a correspondingly greater point budget. The advantage enabled by the spell-skill must cost no more than the spell-skill's budget allows. The cost of an ability is calculated by taking the base cost of the desired advantage and adding enhancements as per normal; adding limitations does not reduce this cost. You do not purchase the advantage; its' cost is calculated merely so that we can determine what skill difficulty to assign the spell that casts it. Spell-skills have no default value. Spell-techniques do. Spell-skills can have techniques. Spell-techniques allow for adding a desirable enhancement or limitation to the spell's advantage in a manner that don't impact its' budget cost and thereby in a manner that doesn't affect its' skill difficulty. Enhancement Techniques default to their parent spell-skill at the greater of -2 or one-tenth the enhancement value. A spell-technique for Reduced Fatigue Cost 1 defaults to its' parent spell at -2. A spell-technique for Incendiary also defaults to its' parent spell at -2. A spell-technique for Malediction (-1/yard) defaults to its' parent spell at -10. Limitation Techniques also default to their parent spell-skill at the greater of -2 or one-tenth of the enhancement value. A -5% limitation defaults at -2, a -15% limitation defaults at -2, a -50% limitation defaults at -5, etc. Technique Penalties can be offset by spending fatigue points, removing up to -2 in penalties for every 1 fatigue point spent. This can never result in a bonus! Spells cost fatigue points to cast. 2 of them. This can be reduced by adding the Reduced Fatigue Cost to the base advantage via enhancement (which impacts point budget) or via technique. Reduced Fatigue Cost can only be applied as an enhancement on the base advantage when the base advantage is something that is normally always on; all other advantages may only have Reduced Fatigue Cost applied via spell-technique. Spell casting is a reflexive free action. Using the ability granted by the spell follows the normal rules; advantages that are normally always on simply flicker on, advantages that require a maneuver continue to require that maneuver, etc. You can "power block", "power parry" and "power dodge" with spells if the base advantage is appropriate to doing so. Spell-skills can be upgraded in difficulty, and thereby point budget, if the underlying advantage is a leveled trait. This requires the character to spend the difference between their already invested points in the spell and the cost of purchasing the spell at the higher difficulty at the same relative skill level. If you know a spell as an easy skill at attribute+4 and wish to upgrade it to being an average skill, you must pay the difference in cost between attribute+4/easy and attribute+4/average. The increased point budget is usable only to purchase additional levels of the base advantage. Power can compensate for a lack of skill. When casting a spell, spending extra fatigue gives a +1 bonus to the skill for every 1 fatigue spent for a single roll. Fluff-wise, a spell is said to be for apprentices (easy spells), journeyman (average spells), masters (hard spells) and adepts (very hard spells). In practice, an apprentice is as capable of learning an adept-grade spell as it is capable of learning an apprentice-grade spell; they may have difficulty finding someone willing to teach them though ... Some examples would probably help. Lets see ... Energy Reserve (IQ/Easy) Energy Reserve (Magic) 2 (Reduced Fatigue Cost 2, +40%) [9] The apprentice version of Energy Reserve isn't especially useful, but its' better than nothing. Most apprentices are interested in upgrading this spell at the earliest opportunity. It costs no fatigue to cast and provides access to a pool of additional energy; said pool is rather limited in capacity but at least it recharges quickly! Energy Reserve recharges, active or not, at the normal rate of 1 point every 10 minutes. It is accessible for the duration of one minute. Detect Magic (IQ/Easy) Detect (Magic) [10] The apprentice version of Detect Magic costs 2 fatigue and allows the mage to make Sense rolls in order to detect the presence or absence of magic in an area, the nearest significant source and a rough estimation on the quantity. Once detected, an IQ roll may be made in order to analyize the magic. It has a duration of one minute. Fire Bolt (DX/Easy) Burning Attack (Incendiary, +10%; Partial Dice (Per Level; +6), *1.8) [10] The apprentice version of Fire Bolt creates a magical missile that does 6 bu inc damage to the target if they make a successful innate attack (projectile) skill roll to hit said target and the target doesn't otherwise defend themselves. It has a 10/100 range, an acc of 3, rof of 1 and rcl of 1. No Cost (Fire Bolt) (Tech/H) Reduced Fatigue Cost 2, +40% Defaults to Fire Bolt at -4, Can be no higher than Fire Bolt. Rapid Fire (Fire Bolt) (Tech/H) Rapid Fire (RoF 3), +50% Defaults to Fire Bolt at -5, Can be no higher than Fire Bolt. Ghost Fire (Fire Bolt) (Tech/H) No Wounding, -50% Defaults to Fire Bolt at -5, Can be no higher than Fire Bolt. - - - - - - - - - - Given the above, with the note that it hasn't been playtested yet ... break it for me? If you would be so kind?