[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Tossing out the question raised by this, but why would a wizard have to drop their bow and quiver to cast spells? They are not iron weapons per se, at least the ones that aren't crossbows (those would have some metal parts). The arrow heads? Several wouldn't amount to more iron that a dagger, which a wizard is allowed to carry without penalty. Arrowheads could also be bronze, flint (very sharp!) or the fire-hardened tips of the shafts themselves. Or stick with iron tips and just leave the dagger home. This never came up in my old group, don't think a single wizard ever wanted a bow, but if it had I would have allowed them to hold onto a bow and wear a quiver while spell casting -- it never would have even crossed my mind to disallow it.

Yeah, I mainly meant the cold iron rule. Different games/GMs may have various limits on how much iron can be carried, but some don't allow any iron - and ITL says even one iron/steel weapon will trigger a -4 penalty. Of course there are other materials that can be used, and a GM might also say arrowheads don't count.

Another limit is from the gesture rules, which will limit what a wizard can hold and cast spells at certain IQ levels. Making a bow into a staff could (again, ask GM) be a way around that part of the puzzle.

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

This does point out the problem again of talents competing for memory space with spells. Here's a possible solution to the high wizard mortality rate, but you can't or wouldn't use it because it lessens the ability to use magic at the same time it's helping keep the wizard alive long enough to use magic. A catch 22.

Or it's just an interesting set of circumstances to try to work around if one wants to be a wizard trying to act and seem like an archer.

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Echoing what Jarhead pointed out, wizards rarely live long enough to learn Wizard's Wrath, but in my case I want to say never. My group (6 regulars) played 18 years without a PC ever getting to learn Wizard's Wrath, or most of the other colorful high level spells.

We all built and tried many wizards, but they all died young, usually under 35 AP. (I did keep one wizard alive for all those years, but by deploying him only when he was sent on missions by his superior, an archmage NPC. He finally reached 40 AP after a good dozen campaigns, but that's still not a super-wizard.)

I've rather enjoyed the danger level of TFT, and don't think I'd want it to be expected that wizard PC's will routinely survive to become super-wizards. I like it being a difficult challenge.

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Wizards are just weak in TFT. Not in duels with each other, those are balanced, and not in homogeneous parties where it's mostly or all wizards facing an enemy the GM has balanced against their abilities. But those aren't our typical situations. When it's a mixed party in a combat situation the GM has balanced to challenge the heroes, the wizard or two that might be in the party has a hard row to hoe, and they are more often than not the PCs who die. If they hang back and stay out of the fight, then they aren't advancing themselves. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

I think wizards in TFT are quite powerful, but are a challenge to figure out how to use that power well and stay live. I think a lot of TFT is that way - it's possible to survive years of combat, even as a wizard - it just takes a lot of figuring out how to get a decent chance to do it, and then also luck, good allies, circumstances, etc. That for me is what the game is about - trying to actually succeed despite all the dangerous parts.

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

They depended a lot on missile spells to level the playing field. If missile spells are to be as constrained as the new RAW say they are, we need to look to house rules in other areas to fortify our wizards.

If you think so, and want to, great. If I thought so, I might just rather leave out the new limits. As long as you let people switch to Dodge if they haven't acted and someone throws a fireball at them, I tend to think it's usually fair enough.