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Originally Posted by Randyman

I'd like to see a Cabal 4e (preferably with at least a section that expands on the Pyramid article on using the Cabal in Monster Hunters), but the thread title is a bit much, IMO.

I personally don't feel Monster Hunters and Cabal are a good match.

Monster Hunters has a particular flow and a goal to its design, and it goes something like this: First, a spooky thing happens (say, a series of cheerleaders show up dead at a local highschool in some spooky, occult fashion). The monster hunters then investigate it (It turns out that the cheerleaders were part of a coven of witches that summoned a demon and the head of the coven has become possessed and is killing people), then they stalk it back to its lair, deal with the monster (exorcism) and then kill it (preferably in a badass showdown).

The Ordinary World -> Spooky thing disrupts the ordinary world -> Investigate Spooky Thing -> Find the Dark Lair -> Enter the Dark Lair -> Slay the Dark Beast -> Return to the Ordinary World, see that you no longer (or never will again) truly fit in it. Rinse, repeat. It's the motiff of everything from Dresden Files to Supernatural to Buffy. The monster is slain, directly, by the heroes, and order is restored

Cabal starts the same way: We have the spooky thing and we investigate it, but the motivation for the investigation is completely different. First, if people figure out that magic is real, they might start to investigate you. So, we investigate, but we also cover up. We engage in conspiracy, we redirect, we convince people that it's a serial killer while tugging on strings to get the official story changed AND to get more information ("Oh, so this head cheerleader came was adopted? Interesting. It turns out her birth parents, or "parents" were on the run from a cult. Perhaps there is something innate about her that draws demons to her. Perhaps we can USE her"). Someone else has commented that the Cabal isn't really an organization, but it is a group of people with connections. You will want to get help from one another, and other forces may be conspiring to take advantage of this situation, so in addition to miring yourself in the politics of the ordinary world via your conspiracy, you mire yourself in the politics of the cabal as you try to take advantage of the situation to advance your own agenda and that of your master, to move higher in the ranks of the cabal. Do you want to make a deal wit this demon? Do you want to control this girl? Or do you want to eliminate both to prevent some insidious master you dislike from gaining control of them?

And if it comes to violence, when it comes to violence, the nature of that violence is different. You need to think ahead, gathering names, working out the modifiers you need, even casting the spells you want on the day you want. The nature of Cabal magic is such that it rewards forethought. My experience with Cabal (and it varies based on the assumption you use) is that a prepared cabalist cake-walks through the competition, and an unprepared cabalist isn't playing out an action scenario so much as a horror scenario where he is the prey before a supernaturally-powerful predator. The first case isn't an action scene, it's a villainous monologue followed by the snuffing out of your target (and you're more worried about reprisals, politics, than you are about the actual fight), and the second isn't action either, it's hiding in in a closet, frantically pouring table salt around you and drawing occult symbols into it while the hellhound snuffles outside the door.

Ordinary world -> Spooky thing -> Investigate the spooky thing -> Corrupt the ordinary world so it can live in its delusions -> Conspire to take advantage of the spooky thing -> Squabble with other cabalists -> Lose control of the whole situation -> Run around in panic ->Resolve the crisis by inducting it into the cabal or destroying it -> Find some way to turn the situation into an advance in power or understanding.

The result is a fundamentally different focus. Monster Hunters is a physical game, a game about detectives and knights. Cabal is a game about wizards and conspirators. It's a game about thought, social interaction, intrigue, deception and subtle magic. If it comes to blows, to actual physical blows, you've screwed something up (a good GM will bring it to that, but the PC isn't generally trying to make that happen, as opposed to Monster Hunters, where the hunter seeks to physically confront the monster).