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Old 03-08-2018, 10:51 PM   #27
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Alternative infantry Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by FJCestero View Post
Just to be clear: Do you mean that you compared (say) a 6/6 MHWZ that could attack armor & infantry with normal terrain benefits versus a 6*/6 MHWZ that can only attack infantry (but that infantry receives no defense bonus for terrain)? And found it sucked?? Because the 6*/6 version was too powerful or too weak? I'm interested -- my gut says they're of roughly equal value, but haven't play-tested. I'd really like to know what you found. Can you elaborate?

[P.S.: I use a * star as short-hand for AP-only. E.g.: an Ogre-AP guns I list as 1*/1 D1 ].
To be clear, I'm talking about specifically what I was experimenting with...it's not a commentary on your idea at all!

All of the specific ideas I had some killer flaw or another...I personally wasn't able to make the concept work in a way where the unit fit the mission profile I set out to have it fill [flushing infantry out of D-boosting terrain], didn't sit in some weird loophole in Henry's algorithm, or didn't make me uncomfortable about the number of special case rules on that unit [defeating the purpose of playing Ogre instead of a wargame that's more complicated by design].

That was the criteria I measured the approaches I tried against. They all came up short one way or another. To judge them against one another, I looked at the VP costs of getting A5...enough to get a 1:2 attack against a D3 stack of Infantry in a town hex.

1) A 6(AP) Howitzer that can only make spillover attacks.
2) A higher A-rating version of #1.
3) A 6(AP) Howitzer with no other changes
4) A 6(AP) Howitzer firing at fixed 1:1 odds.

Idea #1
#1 was an attempt to model the concept of a Howitzer-launched CBU canister first, and fit into the game rules second...a completely indiscriminate weapon that indirectly hits everything in the hex, playing no favorites and sparing none.

It was a spectacular failure. Because of being locked to Spillovers, it's really a 3(AP) Howitzer, which is at best going to be 3:1 [D1], most commonly 1:1 [D2 to D5] or 1:2 [D6 to D8], and at worst an automatic NE [D9...a triple-stack in x3 D terrain]. The cost to A5 [after reduction] was admittedly decent...just 4.5 to 6VP (fixed vs mobile)...but it came at the costs of always rolling on the Spillover CRT, greatly reduced utility, and having to screen a pair of batteries long enough to do their job of hitting a 1-in-6, then a 1-in-3, then a 1-in-2 to be able to clear a single stack out of a city.

Idea #2
#2 was an attempt to increase the A rating of #1 to make it able to do its job without needing a whole swarm of the things...but because of the mandatory spillover, the A ratings ended up well and beyond off the charts. Instant DQ, I'm not even going to entertain the idea of an A10 unit, even if it is automatically halved to A5 because of the 'mandatory spillover' provision carried over from #1.

After Idea 2, the idea of me trying to develop truly indiscriminate normal units in Ogre went to the landfill where it belonged. Gonna save that stuff for cruise missiles.

Idea #3
#3 was accepting that the mandatory spillover was a complete non-starter, and starting over with a more normal-circumstances baseline. This one worked OK...the cost to get any roll at all against 3-in-a-city was still a paltry 3.6 to 4.7VP, there weren't any special case rules, and you only needed one of the things to get said roll. Where they fell apart for me isn't that they were limited to a tight niche, but that they were immensely powerful in that niche.

For 12VP, you get an aggregate of A18...3x the firepower of a standard Howitzer for the same price. It's limited to just soft targets, but that's still a ridiculous amount of firepower for the VP...the only conventional unit in the game with a VP / A ratio of less than 1.

Still, I would love to muck about with creating a 'Beachhead' style scenario where these are provided, rather than purchased. Victory or defeat would hinge on how well the defender's screen could hold off the attacker's spearhead.

Idea #4

Idea #4 was an attempt to address the problems with #3, by dialing back the firepower per VP while still making them better than regular Howitzers at clearing D-boosting terrain of their pesky Infantry infestations.

It proved a wash against units in the D4-D6 range (2-stacks in x2 or x3 terrain, 3-stacks in x2 terrain) , and marginally better at clearing out pockets of infantry that managed to hit D7 or higher (3-stack in x3 terrain)...but was considerably worse against anything D3 or below. On top of that, it meant adding inconsistency to the rules.

Another interesting scenario gimmick, one that would really come into its own where VP were awarded by occupying cities with infantry turn over turn, and either side lost a significant amount of VP every time they destroyed a town hex (necessitating massed AP weaponry)...but for normal battles? Just give me a regular Howitzer.
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Andy Mull
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Ogre 134th Battalion

Lancaster, PA
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Last edited by TheAmishStig; 03-09-2018 at 08:29 AM. Reason: 3s where there should be 2s.
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