[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Stone Dog

Specifically I'd LOVE to see some compare and contrast with the Thief, Martial Artist and Swashbuckler.

Similarities:

• Like the thief, the ninja is nimble and stealthy, and strikes from surprise.
• Like the martial artist, the ninja uses special physical abilities that constitute a power.
• Like the swashbuckler, the ninja privileges skill and agility over strength and armor.

Differences:

• Unlike the thief, the ninja is all about killing, not foiling locks/traps and stealing things.
• Unlike the martial artist, the ninja's power focuses heavily on weapons and gizmos.
• Unlike the swashbuckler, the ninja is all about sneaky cunning, not honorable bravado.

If I were to list three things that define the ninja, I'd say "stealth, special gear, and weapon-based powers."

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Just a minor nitpick, there are NO powerups

My perspective as the line editor differs. The long and rather detailed list of ninja abilities is intended for both beginner ninja and master ninja. This supplement includes a basic template of the DF 1: Adventurers kind, lenses of the DF 3: The Next Level type, and abilities similar to those in DF 11: Power-Ups.

Originally Posted by b-dog

If you make such cool, detailed templates like DF Ninja then nobody will want to play a generic Thief or Knight.

Tosh. There's really no more on ninja in DF 12 than there is on knights, on thieves, or on any other profession in DF 1, DF 3, and DF 11 put together. It's just that this book came after all those, so all the bits that would've been strewn across three items are collected in one place. The ninja doesn't usurp anyone's niche . . . Prior to DF 12, there was no assassin "class" in the series – a clear oversight! Now there is.

Originally Posted by b-dog

Now maybe if there were Samuri and Viking templates as a subset of Knights then people would be more interested IMO.

You seem to misunderstand. Barbarian, holy warrior, knight, martial artist, scout, swashbuckler, and unholy warrior are all just subsets of "fighter." Demonologist, elementalist, necromancer, scholar, and wizard are all just subsets of "magician." Cleric, druid, evil cleric, and shaman are all just subsets of "priest." And bard, innkeeper, and thief are all just subsets of "rogue." You could quibble about the assignments, but the point is, these are already subtypes of bigger archetypes. The ninja and assassin are two more members of the rogue set. They aren't more specialized than any of the others, just different.

Originally Posted by Stone Dog

Like "The Assassin (since that seems to be the name of the template) gets X, but the Thief still gets Y?"

Aside from what I've already said, the assassin and ninja are similar in that they're both stealthy killers, but different in that the ninja relies on an uncanny power and slightly impossible gadgets, while the assassin is more about major force, poison, and straightforward thuggery.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'm fairly sure that "Assassin" is the "nonja" template, that was included if you wanted to use stuff from the .pdf, but not have Japanese-esque characters in your game.

I'd assert that the fantasy ninja is no longer Japanese in any meaningful sense . . . he has graduated to the realm of the generic, much as the fantasy bard and druid don't have much to do with Celts any more. The main difference is that the ninja uses obscure weapons and abilities that require him to take complicated vows and act inscrutable, while the assassin is just a cold killer with all-too-easy-to-grasp motives like "money" and "hate." The ninja is set up so that he could be honorable; the assassin is meant to be a unequivocally "evil," like the evil cleric and unholy warrior.