[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Sindri

It doesn't matter because it's still in the same paradigm that, controlling for how you study, a point in one thing takes the same time to gain as a point in another thing. Which is wrong because it's harder to increase very high skills than low ones. The point isn't that that's not realistic per se. It's that because it's not realistic you should not use the Improvement Through Study rules to conclude things about other areas of the rules.

This paradigm (it's harder to get higher when your are already high) is not necessarily true. Of course, to our point of view, people with high skills sound to have difficulty to go even higher. But it can be just a point of view effect: the difference between 1 and 2 is huge because 2 is the double of 1. 100% more. The difference between 10 and 11 is not so huge, because 11 is only 10% more. And the difference between 21 and 20 is just 5% more.

In GURPS terms, it is worse. Effective skill of 20, 21 and 22 exactly have the same chance of success.

Brief, this feeling could come from the fact that we just don't see higher skill improving (while they still do).

Originally Posted by Sindri

Just because being able to achieve perfection is dubious does not mean that rules couldn't be made that are more realistic.

Yes. But what I want to say is that it would require to change a lot of things, then.

Originally Posted by Sindri

It's extremely trivial to remove the insert-time-get-points part of GURPS. You just ignore the Improvement Through Study rules.

To be replaced by what? If you just ignore them, how would you answer to my player who once said, for instance: "OK. I've got one week free. I go to the library and begin to study Latin" (last example I've seen).

Originally Posted by Sindri

I would not describe that as being enforced to do anything. It's not true either. Just like many third edition books are quite usable with fourth edition there are many fourth edition books that are quite usable with third edition and I would expect this pattern to continue. It's not like there aren't any books in fourth edition that require other books in order to be usable without ever having to deal with any referenced rules you don't have access to either.

GURPS is mainly bought for its mechanisms. Of course, all books are very well documented. Authors of them are very skilled in the topic they are speaking about and do a lot of research to include interesting data. But if I buy a GURPS book about Egypt, Steampunk or anything else like that, it is to have both documentation and rules. If I just want documentation, I won't buy a GURPS book. I will buy another book which gives only documentation. For my Cthulhu campaigns, for instance, I mainly buy Call of Cthulhu books. And I also buy Lovecraft novels. They offer far much documentation on that topic that any GURPS book can offer. Not because GURPS authors cannot do as well. Just because GURPS author do something else: offering a game world and specific rules or stats to cover it with GURPS. As a lot of people, for instance, I bought Cthulhupunk mainly to play ordinary Cthulhu adventures. Not to play Cthulhu in a Cyberpunk world.

Originally Posted by Sindri

Well yes, a new edition isn't free. Nothing in the GURPS line is free though. Every book takes resources that theoretically could go to another book and the GURPS fanbase is very broad in the sorts of books they would like. Any expenditure of resources will look bad from the point of view of people who are more interested in other things it could have been invested in.

Exactly. I will add to that the fact that GURPS buyers are mainly interested by rules. Most of them create their own game world, campaign, adventures or used those of another publisher. So, when the rules change, they have to be bought again. Unless wanting to be quite alone... Just look at the number of thread which are speaking about the third edition on this forum. Just very few now.

Originally Posted by Sindri

Then we have very different philosophies about RPG systems because the only thing I'd recognize as something that doesn't need a true rewrite is some sort of magical platonic version of an RPG system that has nothing to do with actual books.

The chance that a 5th edition of GURPS goes exactly in the direction you want are very low, then. Unless you become one of the main authors.

GURPS is GURPS, and work very well as it is, even if all of us disagree with some points here or there. Some things can be corrected, of course, exactly as they have been corrected and improved since the third edition. But the game will still remain overall the same, with its 3 dice against the effective skill, its point base character creation system... And its Improvement through study rules (which were already there in the third edition).

Originally Posted by Sindri

How often do you see something mechanically interesting though?

Very often. As I said above, if I want only documentation, I have got better books than GURPS ones. Because GURPS is a roleplaying game, not a documentary book. So, GURPS books are designed to be played, which implies stats and rules. And even when they are easy to convert, that requires time.

Let's take Egypt, for instance. What is is interesting once you read the historical stuff? The chapters Characters, to create a character (pages 70 to 85), the Job table (page 84), the chapter on equipment, the spells and the bestiary... But all that is written for the third edition. Advantages, disadvantages, skills have changed, as well as costs, incomes, and spells. So, if I am a fan of Egypt, is it a better idea to use Egypt or to use documentary books on Egypt, Basic Set 4th Edition, Low-Tech for the 4th edition and Thaumatology? The answer is here: Egypt will remain on the shelves. And if a new book about Egypt is published for the fourth edition, a fan of Egypt will surely want to buy it...

Likewise, if, in the future, I buy the 5th edition, what part of Low-Tech, High-Tech, Ultra-Tech, Bio-Tech, Horror, Magic, Thaumatology will still be usable without having a lot of conversions to do? I've got these book for the third edition (apart from Thaumatology, of course, which didn't exist). As well as Compendium 1 and 2. I don't open them anymore (except when I feel a bit nostalgic).