[Plane]

One thing I wonder is that if slamming someone slows you down (the damage they do subtracts yards from speed) that maybe if someone parries your slam that should slow you down too. Like maybe parrying a slam should also inflict damage to the slammer (in addition to a possible Aggressive Parry) as if they had collided with something. But not do damage to the parrier. Then that damage would be decelerative too.

Like maybe a parrier could have the option of a fast-parrying a slam (like a punch) or slow-parrying a slam (like a shove) depending on if they wanted to injure or avoid injuring a slammer/runner or not.

Originally Posted by ericthered

By RAW, red would stop green without either taking damage... and green would have to be a lot bigger than red to invoke the weight rules successfully.

What weight rules? Do you mean like which allows someone to move despite being grappled?

To actually stop someone, you're either making contact with them or forcing them to stop and think "I'd better not continue forward or I'll make contact with them".

Originally Posted by ericthered

oh cool.

that could work...

Okay, so we'll use that if a collision does happen. I think a similar approach would also make sense for when accidental collisions happen as a result of knockback, to keep accidental collisions less injurious to the collidee than if the collider were intentionally defensive-attack-slamming them.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I agree that the parry rules are odd with regards to weight, especially for natural weapons. I'm not excited to break out technical grappling for it.

TG doesn't have new rules for parrying that I remember. I think there was a reworked formula in Pyramid somewhere but it's still a yes/no rather than a continuum.

TG however DOES have the gradual penalties based on weight which I think can be floated over to parrying somehow. Though that's still in the sense of applying it to the parry skill and is still all-or-nothing damagewise, which is where I think Power Parry precedent in Powers could help. That or a recent idea I had of treating "Parry Damage" as inflicting Control Points that immediately expire after they retroactively affect the attack's accuracy (DX) and damage (ST).

Originally Posted by ericthered

I've been thinking about the parry weights rule for a while now and I've been thinking that the best way to model it might be penalties for large relative strengths (or actually basic lifts), modified by the "weight" of your weapon... but that's a different kettle of fish.

Yeah, sounds like floating TG's table over.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I don't think a punch should effect green's speed.

Well there's one respect
1) you probably can't run as fast when you're throwing punches/kicks than when you're focusing 100% on running

That might be covered on only allowing a "Move" to be "Sprinting" and to not allow Sprinting during a Move and Attack, though.

Second respect:
2) if a punch launches kinetic energy forward to knock its target backward, that is wasted energy not being spent to propel the runner forward.

IE basically if my punch misses, then I don't transfer any of my momentum to you, and maintain that forward momentum. If a punch hits, it necessarily must transfer some amount of kinetic momentum to the target.

The question is whether or not the transfer of momentum is enough to actually slow down.

TG basically decelerates a slammer by 1 y/s per each point of damage they took from the thing they collided with, so 1 damage = 1 yard seems like the go-to formula.

That said, I'm more of the mind it should scale with HP like shock does. IE it should be 2 damage = 1 yard if the slammer/runner has 20 HP, because they have more inertia and it would take more force to slow them down.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I could see the AP from the attack providing half of the benefit of spending a full AP for move, rounded down.

Er, you mean like 2 AP for AOA/Committed = 1 AP worth of deceleration while normal/defensive attacks give 0.5 AP worth of deceleration? Rounded down to 0 unless using a partial AP system, or maybe just eyeballing that as 20% or 25% of move instead of 50%

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think I'd fall back on our discussion of what happens if green just runs into red's hex. I don't think adding a punch changes anything meaningfully.

Well, the issue is when I run THROUGH to the rear hex without trying to get around you.

Normal evasion basically assumes "if my obstructor gets in my way, I'll back off and reduce my forward momentum to avoid bumping into them or tripping over them" which is a weird assumption.

Let's think of how B388 "Attacking Through an Occupied Hex" would work if I was trying to Slam someone behind you. This rule mentions needing reach 2, but I think that assumes you aren't sharing the hex with your opponent, because you would only need reach 1 to reach someone in a hex behind an opponent if they were in the same hex as you.

This is -4 to hit and it doesn't say B389 "Hitting the Wrong Target" would apply on a miss, but that seems like a reasonable thing to houserule. So the "flat 9 or worse" rule for random chance pops up here.

Say it did hit though, this would mean if you managed to slam someone with reach 2 (which I think requires combining "Flying Tackle" or "Pounce" with AOA Long, unless you were high SM) behind the occupied hex... you've managed to get some part of your body that you slam with (the shoulder?) through that hex!

Now... since kicks have reach 1 and AOA (Long) gives +1 to reach, it would be possible to use ATAOH to kick past someone without actually evading them... and then you have at least your foot (if not your body) behind them.

I sort of lost track of what I was getting at... I guess maybe that there can be ways other than Evade to move through an occupied hex, albeit probably just specific parts and not your entire body.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Who would roll dodge? both of them? And resisting an (implied) evade attempt feels like the opposite of dodge.

Evade sort of implies underneath/around/overtop, if the "I need to get behind you" guy doesn't care about that...

They won't adjust their aim like they would a slam against the target or their cadence/angle to inflict max damage (that's an attack) but it's an "accidental thing you must dodge" similar to how you'd need to dodge a gorilla if I shoved/threw a gorilla at you.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Dodging while running does feel natural. Counting dodge AP towards deceleration... isn't a bad idea. I'd prefer it apply between 1 y/s and Move/2 yard per second at the dodger's option.

That sounds fine. Or maybe make it dodger's option on a successful dodge, attacker's option on a failed dodge?

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'd prefer to make it apply from after this situation onward, because other-wise you're adjusting rules to assist yourself on the fly.

Well the flip side is that with defending being forced-deceleration, it would make it all the harder for a slow guy to catch up with a faster guy while defending themselves. That would work against me if you were taking Wait maneuvers, although since Wait can't transition into Move, probably not as huge an advantage for you... though Wait transitioned into Committed Attack would also be pretty decent.

Originally Posted by ericthered

1 AP would allow the full 3 yards to be decelerated, as its move/2

I don't have my Basic Move of 6 due to the leg injury though, wouldn't AP cost for deceleration be based on my reduced move?

Move 3 is basically my maximum right now, so it seems like if I got 1 free AP worth of deceleration from an active defense that this would only reduce me by 1/2 my move rounded down, so 1.5 would round down to just reducing by 1y/s and still leave me at 2/ys forward momentum...