View Single Post
Old 11-14-2018, 02:41 PM   #22
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
So it seems we are playing with every possible combat option turned on, given that we're using both cinematic techniques (like roll with the blow) and gritty realism switches?
Yeah, though it's hard to remember them all so it's like an exercise in trying to remember them too. Gladiators is on the table too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
please do not GM abuse. We can always rerun a fight rather than rigging it. Could we stay RAW unless required for this fight and apply those tweaks to the next one?
Well okay (it's just a difference of 1 shock though...) but if higher HP isn't going to help prevent shock then higher skill isn't going to prevent AP loss via margins, so I'll ignore all that decimal stuff I was experimenting with too.

So in that case you were at 7AP not 8.2 AP and I was at 0AP not 0.5AP... and I did lose 4 not 3 to shock so I would be at -1 AP... the FP burn brings me up to 5 AP and then lose another 2 AP from doing the DX check and the Breakfall (presumably no objections to my choosing to do that?) brings me down to 3AP...

Then spending 1 AP to evade brings me down to 2/12 AP and your obstructing that evade brings you down to 6/10AP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I block the evasive retreat through my half of the hex. 14 vs. 12 = success by two.
Okay then in that case, I fall down in our shared hex instead of the hex behind you...

When you fall down you have to occupy 2 hexes though...

I'm actually stuck here, would you happen to know how you determine which of those hexes that would be? Maybe something like rolling d6? Can't remember any rules for it. I know if you had judo flipped me that you would get to choose and if I had chosen to change posture that I would get to choose, but I don't know if anyone gets to choose for falls...

Anyway I might as well resolve that fall now... or wait *reads your 2nd reply* Maybe not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
[*]Roll with the blow is excellent for this game. I would not require AP for it, but I don't feel particuarly strongly about that.
1 AP is a bit of a high cost, but I figured doing MoS discounts would mitigate that and give incentive for people to pump the technique higher, unless of course it could be penalized by stuff other than shock... what would you think about applying penalties from Feints or Deceptive Attacks to this too?

It only seems fair to do that if we're going to let it benefit from things like One Foe or All-Out Defense... even if it's not technically active defense (based on full DX not half DX) it's got the spirit of one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
[*]Applying shock proportionally to HP is fiddly, but not a bad concept. I'm unsure if damage should be rounded down or to the nearest breakpoint. That doesn't matter for 4 damage to 12 HP, but it does matter for other options.
Although the book says to drop all fractions, I would't mind tracking the fractions...
  • shock penalty is -1 per HP/10 injury
I'm not sure if I'm getting the math right...
  • SP=10*I/HP
So 4 injury to 10 hp is 40/10=4
*while to 20 HP is 40/20 = 2
*while to 12 HP is 40/12 = 10/3 =3⅓
*while to 5 HP is 40/5 = 8

The problem with this approach is of course repeating decimals so to make cumulative shock from multiple hits per second easier to track I'd say round down to single decimal place.

1 injury to 20 HP is 10/20 = 0.5 so they could still suffer 1 shock from a couple of those, even though 1 would not be enough. Something with 101 HP (10/101=0.09900990099) would suffer nothing at all worth tracking though, so you'd drop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
[*]Refunding (and penalizing) AP in tenths for margins of success and failure sounds fundementally broken to me. It encourages telegraphic punches, which for Red averages no loss of AP. It discourages defense, penalizing you yet further for failing the defense roll.
Telegraphic attacks are encouraged for those with low skill in MA... however one way to address this concern would be to take a hint from how it affects criticals. Telegraphic attacks do not increase the chances of critical hits, only decrease the chance of critical failures, so based on that, the +4 could count against extra AP loss from MoF but not contribute toward AP refunds for MoS.

Averages of 0 are okay long as a minimum cost of 0.1 is always observed. AP10/FP10 default means someone without refunds punching without pause would reduce to AP0/FP0 in 60 punches. If we look at stuff like speed bags, I'm not sure that's a guarantee even for the untrained, so that's why MoS refunds would stretch AP/FP a little further.

That could be implemented without applying MoF penalties though (Cole never wrote about extra AP loss on critical failures, so there is no precedent) and you have a point about this discouraging active defenses.

Since active defense seems to be lower (based on DX/2 instead of DX) if using margin-based AP variations, that ratio could be recognized
*ADs get a refund equal to MoS/5
*if using penalties, extra cost is merely MoF/20

Do you think that would balance it out?

One reason I thought penalties would be good is actually influenced by defenses. You ALWAYS get an active defense, even if skill is below 3, so it would create some kind of difference between people with "Dodge 3" (which can't get a refund from MoS 0) lower Dodge stats, as MoF is the only way to distinguish their outputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
[*]I strongly disagree with the crouching ruling. I've shown you a quote by the Gurps Line Editor that disagrees with your ruling. Can we at least just reroll those results on the table?
You mean this? You linked the thread but I had to do a reread based on this comment to get more indication of what you were referring to.

How about for radom punches/grabs using upper body...[INDENT]
*we roll to hit before the random hit location table as usual
*if you have MoS 1 and rolled shin or knee, you can opt to half-crouch (only -1 to skill and -1 for ranged to shoot you) and hit that, or not crouch and instead hit that leg's thigh instead (this is all "leg" so it doesn't matter unless leg is differently armored)
**ignore above requirements if leg in question through a kick, knee, leg parry, dodge against attack targetting foot or step in last turn
*if you have MoS 2 and rolled foot or ankle, you can opt to fully crouch and hit the foot, or half-crouch and hit that leg's shin instead, or NOT crouch and hit that leg's thigh instead.
**ignore above requirements if leg in question made a kick last turn
***if leg in question merely made a knee, leg parry, dodge against attack targetting foot or step, shift to previous category (need only MoS 1 and half-crouch to hit foot)
Completely rerolling the randomness seems too random, but I don't think the amount of crouching needed to punch a thigh needs to be statted (combat stance assumes some realistic amount of crouching) so allowing that as an alternative to crouching seems like a good compromise.

Precedents for opportunistic target-shifting by attacker:
how failed Aggressive Parry allows hand to be targeted instead of arm and failed Jam allows foot to be targetted instead of leg, or how if you parry weapons unarmed the attacker can shift from their original target to your arm if you fail.

For the proposed -1, you can also choose to exit out of that at any time as a free action. Feet on the ground are like someone lying, the shin portion of the leg is higher up so it should be easier to hit, but it still seems like an awkward place, mitigated of course by people who actually did something that requires lifting the leg off the ground.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote