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Originally Posted by Dinadon

I don't see much point trying to give high DX, low ST characters more incentive to use beat beyond raising their ST.

Then why post to the thread?

In the same way I don't see much point trying to give high ST, low DX characters one for feint.

But he has one. He has many, actually. If his opponent is proficient in at least 2 defenses, Feint is superior to Beat, even if you're stronger than you're dextrous. Or if your opponent is quite strong but not particularly dextrous, a feint will force him to defend with dexterity, rather than strength. Beat has no comparable advantages.

Basically, "Beat exists so strong guys with low dex can feint too," and I find that unsatisfying.

Anyway, I won't argue that feint is superior in a one-on-one match up, because it is. Which is also why I don't think much of your example.

In the sense that the example proves the obvious? Perhaps.

Aside from the fact that strong guy is really lopsided,

Because I'm exaggerating to make a point.

and isn't really a challenge so why consider him at all?

Because he outlines a principle.

You don't present a situation in which beat can make full use of the rules it has.

Please! Show me what those advantages are!

If you have one person really good at beats, and his two competent buddies, how quickly do you think they can take down a single competent opponent?

Two guys versus one don't need beats to win. And anyway, I chose to highlight duels for a reason. People use beats in duels all the time in real life, and yet, they're not useful in a duel here. I'm planning on running a game that will feature duels. Can you show me how a beat is useful in one-on-one, without digging into "Well, if you're really strong..."?

Beat and feint are tactically different combat options, and an interesting choice if their level is fairly equal.

So far everything I've seen in this thread suggests that they aren't interesting choices. If you're roughly equal in strength and dex, or you have more dex than strength, feint is always superior (except for a few very situational circumstances). The only time one uses Beats is if you're trying to set up someone for an ally, of if you're much stronger than you are dextrous. You are an ogre, for example. Am I wrong? Is there something else I'm missing? Those aren't interesting choices or tactically different options. Those are "My character is X, so I always use Y." It's a character creation consideration, not an in-the-heat-of-battle "What should I use now?" choice.

However changing beat without having a proper look at the situations where it is suppose to be more useful (in this case, group based combat) is a flawed method of reasoning.

No kidding, hence the thread.