Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly
I don't think the cartoon of shields someone posted a link to is a particularly useful guide here. The round and heater shields that were shown are similar to each other in area and weight - much as you'll notice the Rottellas and a heaters in museum collections are broadly similar in size. If you were going to assign any shield to the category of 'large', these would be it. They are similar to each other, both are clearly a step below the largest shields (kites, roman infantry shields, medieval footmen's tower shields, etc.) and clearly a step above the smaller shields (bucklers, the small heater-shaped shields used in late 15th century once plate was well developed). Basically, if you don't think bucklers were small shields, than I don't know what you think was a small shield, or where bucklers fit in the game.
Also, the buckler in Henry's video is clearly one kind of buckler (I used to spar with an SCA heavy weapons guy who used one slightly smaller!). But it is clearly an extreme; most bucklers are 1' or more in diameter, and 1.5 to even 2' is not extraordinary. Check out this image from the I.33 fencing manual (ca. 1300), which shows two guys sparring, one with a tiny fist-sized buckler and one with a giant buckler the size and shape of a huge salad bowl:
https://grauenwolf.wordpress.com/201...-from-ms-i-33/ |
Again, terminology. The conversation breaks down when I write "buckler" and apparently am either wrong or not saying what you or Jeff think of as a buckler.
What I mean by "buckler" is either what's shown in the video (is that even 12" across?), or something up to maybe a foot across, or what GURPS 1e-3e meant by buckler - an unstrapped very small shield held in the hand, notably smaller than Small Shield and unable to shield rush.
Examples:
12", 3.2 lbs
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...uckler-medium/
10", 4.4 lbs
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...buckler-small/
9"
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...uckler-9-inch/
What I think of as a Small Shield is something larger, not a fencing-era thing, more like around two feet or so, and probably at least partly strapped on.
Examples:
24", 6 lbs 13oz
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...-round-shield/
24" x 18", 10 lbs
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...battle-shield/
26" x 18"
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...battle-shield/
24", 6 lbs 10 oz
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...cottish-targe/
25"
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...-horse-shield/
I think of a Large Shield as a larger shield, maybe around three feet.
Examples:
40"
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...dragon-shield/
48" high, but not very wide:
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...n-kite-shield/
46" x 28"
https://www.medievalcollectibles.com...usader-shield/
I think of a Tower Shield as over three or four feet high, and at least two feet wide for all of that height, so able to cover most of the body from one direction, or pretty much all of it if you crouch behind it.
I don't think of those small fencing "bucklers" as being a listed weapon in TFT, as the small shield to me represents something larger, different, able to shield rush, and with an effective encumbrance of 10 lbs. If pressed to allow such small bucklers, and willing to concede, I'd either suggest GURPS or make up a TFT house rule where it has some disadvantage over a full Small Shield - maybe able to stop 1 hit but not from missile weapons?