Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post

Inky · 08-29-2021, 01:00 AM

Well, the vampires themselves, who ought to know if anyone would, generally talk as if they take it for granted that they are the same people. Angel's explanation, when he finally does explain what he is, is definitely a surprise to Giles.
To be fair, one exception that I can think of is worm boy, who outright said he wasn't him, although you could still read that as a "Hulk not Banner! Banner weak!" moment.
But mostly they refer to their past selves as "me". And the other vampires generally seem to address Angel as if he's their old pal gone lamentably soft in the head.
But regarding plot threads that don't make sense unless they are the same people, I was thinking particularly of Spike's storyline, especially in series 7. If the idea was supposed to be

Spoiler:

that just doesn't make any emotional sense, and the BtVS writers usually bothered about things making some emotional sense even when they didn't make any other kind of sense!

You have a point about the writers not necessarily being consistent, though. Actually, I wonder whether they started by assuming "the vampires are demons that just happen to look like the same people" and then changed their minds later on.
The film that came before the series, from what I've heard, was basically a subverted horror film where the monsters end up running from the cheerleader, and screaming demon hordes might be all you'd need for that, it doesn't go on long enough to need to know any more about them than that.
And in the pilot, which is also a lot like that, Giles says what you quoted and worm boy backs him up.
The stuff that points the other way all happens later, once Angel appears and the vampires start having more in the way of speaking parts, and even more after Spike starts working with them in series 4, he being the first "standard" vampire they've been on those terms with.

Hard to be sure about it, anyway, given that nearly everyone in BtVS isn't a terribly reliable witness.

Regarding the melodrama thing, I don't remember specific examples either, so I'll leave that to other people.

08-29-2021, 01:00 AM	#815
Inky Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK	Re: Five Earths, All in a Row Well, the vampires themselves, who ought to know if anyone would, generally talk as if they take it for granted that they are the same people. Angel's explanation, when he finally does explain what he is, is definitely a surprise to Giles. To be fair, one exception that I can think of is worm boy, who outright said he wasn't him, although you could still read that as a "Hulk not Banner! Banner weak!" moment. But mostly they refer to their past selves as "me". And the other vampires generally seem to address Angel as if he's their old pal gone lamentably soft in the head. But regarding plot threads that don't make sense unless they are the same people, I was thinking particularly of Spike's storyline, especially in series 7. If the idea was supposed to be Spoiler: that the Spike the viewers have come to know and occasionally love actually died in that cave and the person the viewers are supposed to be rooting for in series 7 is a total stranger (well, the viewers have seen him once, in a flashback scene), that just doesn't make any emotional sense, and the BtVS writers usually bothered about things making some emotional sense even when they didn't make any other kind of sense! You have a point about the writers not necessarily being consistent, though. Actually, I wonder whether they started by assuming "the vampires are demons that just happen to look like the same people" and then changed their minds later on. The film that came before the series, from what I've heard, was basically a subverted horror film where the monsters end up running from the cheerleader, and screaming demon hordes might be all you'd need for that, it doesn't go on long enough to need to know any more about them than that. And in the pilot, which is also a lot like that, Giles says what you quoted and worm boy backs him up. The stuff that points the other way all happens later, once Angel appears and the vampires start having more in the way of speaking parts, and even more after Spike starts working with them in series 4, he being the first "standard" vampire they've been on those terms with. Hard to be sure about it, anyway, given that nearly everyone in BtVS isn't a terribly reliable witness. Regarding the melodrama thing, I don't remember specific examples either, so I'll leave that to other people. __________________ Looking for online text-based game at a UK-feasible time, anything considered, Roll20 preferred. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168443 Last edited by Inky; 08-29-2021 at 01:10 AM.