View Single Post
Old 03-15-2018, 05:50 PM   #20
vitruvian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Okay, so if you want to considering adding a 4th attribute, first understand how the rules are expressed as the current 3 attributes of ST, DX, IQ = 32. I think most you might want to now how an engine works before they start modifying it, yes?

Well the premise is the Algebraic Engine which drives the TFT character creation. So we need to discover which engine you are going to modify.

Mathematically 3Attributes@36 could be expressed in three ways, it depends on if you think Wizard is an expansion to the Melee rules, or if Wizard restated Melee/Wizard, or if it was the Melee premise which was expanded, jsut as though IQ was there all along. Here how they look for what they really are:


The letters being variable values:

TFT as Melee Premise only [(a+b)=(b+a)] = 24

Now, here comes the addition of the IQ Attribute with Wizard/IQ

TFT as Melee Premise/Wizard expanding {[(a+b)+c]=[c+(b+a)]}=36 ?

or, is it,

TFT as Wizard Restates the WHOLE Premise [(a+b+c)=(c+b+a)]=36 ?

or, is it, {[(a)+(b)+(c)]=[(c)+(b)+(a)]}=36; like 3 independent reels on a slot machine that gives you a total pay-out?

So before you state a premise for 4 Attributes, you should know the which premise of 3 attributes you understand first; logical?

If NO, then just do whatever you want and simply slap that 4th Att on your character anywhere you like, and don't even worry about how it changes the math and the game; being the foundation of the design. Just have at it and have fun.

If YES, the first step you would need to do is to decide which of the three expressions of Melee/Wizard states how YOU understand the 3 ATT TFT premise when taken from a ST DX @24 premise and into a ST DX IQ @36 premise.

We will take it from there when you have decided if Melee is the base with IQ added on top to expand to 3 Atts, or, is it now a whole new base including both together.

Jim
Unless you're going to enforce BOTH the Melee ST + DX = 24 AND the Wizard ST + DX + IQ = 32 (NOT 36!), then all the algebraic expressions you provide for (starting) attributes are equivalent and it really makes no difference which you use. We also have to reckon with the fact that ITL introduced the concept that it's NOT truly a completely fungible pool of attribute points, but that different races have different starting values for each attribute, humans starting with 8 in each of ST, DX, and IQ and having 8 additional points to add to any of the three.

Therefore, any proposals for adding fourth or further attributes should probably not start with some assumed a priori mathematical principle (e.g., going from Melee to Wizard they went from 24 with a mean over 2 of 12 to 32 with a mean over 3 of 10.67, so going to four attributes we'll have 40 total for a mean over 4 of 10, or whatever). Instead, depending on what the new attributes do, we would evaluate what their starting values should be for various types of figures (i.e., races, etc.) and whether any additional 'bonus' points are needed at all, on the basis of game balance (hopefully backed up by some actual playtesting).

For example, if the fourth attribute is Power (and it would be nice if it did something other than provide energy for spells - maybe it could have something to do with the potency of one's spells against countermagic or other resistance, or how powerful your spells can be as opposed to how many you can know), then presumably the intent is that wizards will buy up DX, IQ, and PW, leaving ST alone, while other characters will buy up DX, IQ, and ST, leaving PW alone - so 8 'bonus' points might well still be sufficient to spread around your attributes.

But the algebraic formulae upon which you're placing so much weight never really had any purpose other than getting (starting) characters to attribute levels where they could contend against each other pretty fairly.
vitruvian is offline   Reply With Quote