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Kelly Pedersen · 09-10-2018, 01:14 PM

For the "low IQ means you can succeed at Empathy by assuming the opposite result" issue, I think the solution is fairly simple: just don't assume that "the GM lies" means "the GM tells you the literal opposite of the truth", but rather "the GM gives you false information designed to mislead you". So if a successful Empathy roll would tell you "this person seems suspicious, like they're intending to betray you", the GM could instead say "They seem perfectly trustworthy", "they're being upfront with you, but planning on betraying their other friend", "they'll be trustworthy if you meet their price, otherwise watch out!", or any number of other variations. And sometimes, throw in truthful answers even on a failure, to keep the situation uncertain.

As to the original question in the thread, I'd argue that Empathy probably isn't very worthwhile if you've only got a 50% chance of being right, but it isn't actually harmful. There are numerous traits that probably aren't worth buying if you don't have the attributes to support them (Danger Sense comes to mind, for example), but that's just standard game design - GURPS assumes that certain traits depend on certain attributes to support them. You can change that assumption (for Empathy, either Reliable, or Based on (Attribute) will do the trick here), but you have to pay for that.

And I don't actually agree that the character with a 50% chance of Empathy is actually worse off than one without it, because the knowledge you gain from Empathy doesn't dictate specific actions to take in response. Going back to the original example, where the Queen is an impostor, the characters aren't forced to either spy on the queen or immediately denounce her - they can simply wait and watch, being alert, now that they know she's suspicious, for any activities that would betray her treachery. And even if they decide to gather more information by actively spying, that's still a better situation than if they didn't know she was an impostor at all. Spying may be risky, certainly, but it's not guaranteed to fail and get them caught, and it might very well pay off hugely, allowing them to confirm the Queen is false, leading to rewards and accolades. And that wouldn't be possible without the information provided by Empathy. More ways of getting information is always better, basically, because it gives you more options for things to do.

09-10-2018, 01:14 PM	#15
Kelly Pedersen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada	Re: Empathy with low IQ For the "low IQ means you can succeed at Empathy by assuming the opposite result" issue, I think the solution is fairly simple: just don't assume that "the GM lies" means "the GM tells you the literal opposite of the truth", but rather "the GM gives you false information designed to mislead you". So if a successful Empathy roll would tell you "this person seems suspicious, like they're intending to betray you", the GM could instead say "They seem perfectly trustworthy", "they're being upfront with you, but planning on betraying their other friend", "they'll be trustworthy if you meet their price, otherwise watch out!", or any number of other variations. And sometimes, throw in truthful answers even on a failure, to keep the situation uncertain. As to the original question in the thread, I'd argue that Empathy probably isn't very worthwhile if you've only got a 50% chance of being right, but it isn't actually harmful. There are numerous traits that probably aren't worth buying if you don't have the attributes to support them (Danger Sense comes to mind, for example), but that's just standard game design - GURPS assumes that certain traits depend on certain attributes to support them. You can change that assumption (for Empathy, either Reliable, or Based on (Attribute) will do the trick here), but you have to pay for that. And I don't actually agree that the character with a 50% chance of Empathy is actually worse off than one without it, because the knowledge you gain from Empathy doesn't dictate specific actions to take in response. Going back to the original example, where the Queen is an impostor, the characters aren't forced to either spy on the queen or immediately denounce her - they can simply wait and watch, being alert, now that they know she's suspicious, for any activities that would betray her treachery. And even if they decide to gather more information by actively spying, that's still a better situation than if they didn't know she was an impostor at all. Spying may be risky, certainly, but it's not guaranteed to fail and get them caught, and it might very well pay off hugely, allowing them to confirm the Queen is false, leading to rewards and accolades. And that wouldn't be possible without the information provided by Empathy. More ways of getting information is always better, basically, because it gives you more options for things to do.