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Originally Posted by JCD

There is a lot unsaid by this post which needs clarification.

Are they interested in playing Vampires or Celestials?

Do you envision Celestials being just another generic 'monster' or are they significantly more powerful (on par with IN) to the vamps and claws of oWOD, i.e. do you see A vampire being able to go toe to toe with A Celestial? (If so, you need to answer why God's/Satan's Minions are so weak)

Are Celestials going to be used as NPC 'big bosses' or as PCs?

I am thinking of Celestials as PCs, high-gen vampires as mooks, and werewolves as possibly friendly mooks. Mages as unaffiliated Soldiers, sort of.

How does this integrated with your world's mythology (imo, a HUGE issue)

I am thinking the oWoD as being roughly the same, only with yet another set of supernatural players mucking about in the shadows.

Angels, in theory, are only supposed to be counteracting demons and other "external" forces (demons, vampires, restless dead). Shapeshifters and Mages are a gray area, depending on how much they seem to be distorting the Symphony. But in practice there is a lot of slop in the rules of engagement.

Demons are out for whatever they can get, of course.

Angels in oWoD were MONSTEROUSLY powerful. Consider that it was the angels which stuck the curses onto Caine.

I am not familiar with angels in canon oWoD, but that sounds more like Archangels to me.

I am vaguely thinking that starting Celestials will be roughly the power level of Elder to Methuselah vampires.

But for a quick comparison

oWod characters had stats maxed out at 5. IN characters max out at 6

oWod has a 'power pool' of 10 (blood, rage, Quintessence etc.). IN has one of 9 (one per force)

Does this suggest anything to you? File off the names, use the dice pool as used, maybe give Celestials one extra dot in the Physical aspects, make vessels a merit to buy with freebies, and use Songs as is. Yes, they are more powerful than the powers of Vamp, but they also have less latitude: i.e. a vamp with protean 1 can see in the dark. A Serpah with Corproeal Motion can fly...but he never gets to turn to mist as he advances.

That is one idea, to say Corporeal Forces = Physical Attributes, Ethereal Forces = Social Attributes, and Celestial Forces = Mental Attributes, with a different multiplier than the 2 in IN.

The other idea from the Pyramid article is:

* Corporeal Forces determine Attributes.
* Ethereal Forces determine Abilities.
* Celestial Forces determine Willpower, Celestial Perception, and Songs.

Each Choir/Band gets an automatic 'power' from whatever discipline is closest to the end result. For example, a Seraph would get Auspex 2: an ear for lies, an Impudite a level of Presence, and a Ofanim Celerity.

All Celestials get 'body of mist' to mimic Celestial Form, but they can only stay that way for a short time, it takes a die roll and it is ENORMOUSLY LOUD to do.

Basically yeah.

Other powers would be trickier.

An off the cuff, no math or statistical analysis, gouge I'd use is Dissonance cuts one die from the dice pool per note. This will probably be a lot more crippling in WoD than in IN.

This is a great idea, thank you!

Recall Disturbance. This is huge in IN.

Most if not all uses of supernatural powers cause Disturbance. A vampire using Potence to rip off a car door generates a little, running with celerity more, etc.

Shapeshifters changing form does too, and vulgar magic.

In general, Disturbance and Paradox are closely linked if not identical. Which give Celestials additional problems to worry about, besides just attracting attention.

There is a generic 'we don't want to admit that angels are cool, but they are so we HAVE to include them anyway, but we'll we'll call them something else so as not to offend the Goth Girls' WW spin off of Angels in Mage and Nephilim can fill the bill of Demons and demon spawn.

Magic would be the much lower power rite stuff from Sorcery and the other Lesser Paths for human mages and not the heady "I am God" reality altering stuff of Mage to maintain the flavor.

This is a start.

My thanks to you and everyone for your comments.