[Skarg]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

It is pretty clear from the extended discussion of images and illusions on p. 138-139 that Steve wasn't trying to present a water-tight exclusive list of everything they could and couldn't be and do. So it is understandable, and probably a good thing, that every table will have its own interpretation.

Yes. One thing I rather like about GMs coming up with their own details of how spells work, is that then players of characters who aren't familiar with those spells, won't completely understand exactly how the spells work. That means non-wizard players get to experience imperfect knowledge of magic, instead of strangely already knowing the detailed mechanics of something their PCs don't really know about.

Originally Posted by larsdangly

But if you don't let wizards see through an illusion's eyes in at least some circumstances you are removing a capability that is specifically noted on p. 139. So, that's more like a house rule than an interpretation.

Maybe. Though I think the rule about seeing through eyes was written mainly with combat situations, and simplicity of play, in mind, and probably did not really consider or playtest the implications of illusion scouts used by clever players outside combat, as some of us have experienced. So I think of it more as filling in what the rules don't really cover.

But more importantly, having experienced play with and without unlimited scouting by illusions, I think there's a major campaign style choice for GMs to consider. I.e., if wizards can make illusions of things like small birds or bugs and then get amazing views of the whole area, or see what's on the other side of doors, or up difficult cliffs or inside palaces or guild hall executive offices, and have to consider that foes, bandits, spies etc may do so as well, that's a very different world situation from one where that's difficult or impossible.

And if illusionary scouting is easy, then a GM may want to consider what countermeasures might be taken by the world's various rulers, guild halls, villains, treasuries, etc. If any secrets are to be kept from illusionists, there may need to be some better countermeasures invented than having to have someone who can periodically cast Detect Magic and Dispel Illusion all day, and/or surrounding all locations you want to protect in hundreds or thousands of megahex-sized pentagrams.

Originally Posted by larsdangly

The question in my mind is, if you are going to play RAW (wizards can 'see' and use perception related talents through an illusion's eyes), then what conditions apply?

I already described mine a few posts above. I've tried a number of different illusion theories, and I tend to like ones where illusions are a shared phenomenon of the illusionist's imagination and the minds of the people who perceive it. But that means to gain information not in the illusionist's mind, the audience has to engage the illusion, and then the illusion can see what the audience who noticed it thinks/remembers of their surroundings. It's like the illusionist conjures a dream which is the situation he sees/knows, plus some conjured illusion. Other people who take notice of the illusion have their perceptions unknowingly join that shared dream, and they can add their own perceptions and ideas about the immediate situation to that shared dream. This has the interesting drawback for spying that in order to be able to see and hear what your audience sees and hears, you need them to notice your illusion, so you can't just have your illusion be a bug they don't even notice if you want to gain their perceptions.